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conundrum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote conundrum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/April/2007 at 11:46am
hmmm - I'm contemplating. So many thoughts and ideas. It is a conundrum...

I started this because while I am, an"outsider," I do believe it is a discussion that must be, and one that, regardless of the outcome of my situation, must continue. At least in my opinion.

I know there are neighboring towns and villages that are also going through downzoning, and I believe they are considering a different approach to legal nonconforming buildings.

Here's my irony, I have full replacement value through my insurance, full coverage regarding the main building - both cases are seperate, the main building and the coach house - thus the two seperate discussions.

I owned my building for less than two years before the fire. I likely should have been a more savy buyer, but, I wasn't. When I put the offer in on the building I was with friends from LA who are VERY savy buyers - they have their opinions about what I should do with the building. Many people tell me not to be so emotionally attached. My family wants me back. Life has been all about the building since Nov.

My son has openly declared no real estate for him and wants to move out of the country anyway at this point. He likes the sense of history that can be found elsewhere.

I would love to know the full history of coach houses like mine (in the traditional sense) - which is not a traditional coach house, no coaches ever parked there. It has a full basement. Hard to park a car or a coach in a basement.

I have a copy of a Sanborn Map that shows 417 from 1930 - the coach house as it stands now is fully depicted, the two flat as well, there was even a small garage between the coach house and the main building.

Architecturally it is a classic two flat from 1919, the coach house was also likely built then or earlier.

Sorry, will spell check later. I need to come up with a bit more humerous response. I'll probably stick that in the poetry slam section - have the flu.

I still need to find out the true dates for construction - I don't know if I need the true dates for construction for the appeal - I think that is a seperate issue - not sure - not sure of anything right now.

I am considering a photo-ducumentary project on the dissappearing coach houses. I've already begun the research. I see all of the older people in the village walking around. I see the gentleman who is a crossing guard on Circle and Madison and suspect he has many fantastic stories.

When I can't photo/document Tennessee, maybe people will let me document Forest Park - even if I no longer have a building in the end... We shall see.

If you all run across my tenant, please buy him a beer, I suspect he is going to be going through another morning process - we all have this past few months.

Anyway, scattered thoughts.

Edited by conundrum - 07/April/2007 at 3:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote videoguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/April/2007 at 3:10pm
If the Sanborn map shows the coachhouse from 1930, then the VC should shut the hell up and leave you alone. For 77 years its not been a problem, but these yahoos have to go make it one.

I think your attorney should be looking to the insurance company to cover you for the loss in value if you need to tear things down. Let the insurance company pay you and then THEY can go and sue the village. But maybe your policy doesnt cover loss in value due to restrictive laws. Some do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/April/2007 at 6:00am
“It would be so nice if something made sense for a change.”
Alice, “Alice in Wonderland,” Lewis Carroll, 1865

so who makes these people the gatekeepers of behavior? what we should and should not do.
at this point in time all the rumblings and grumblings we can heap upon those who serve as guardians of the public space and conversation is to the good.
rock the boat.
"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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citizen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/April/2007 at 9:44am
rock the vote.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/April/2007 at 10:02am
If Hosty votes to demolish the coach house or 2 flat, I believe someone ought to nail him for living in a non-residential building.  If he's going to be pointing fingers, he needs to comply himself.  Make him tear out his bathroom and whatever other changes he did to an office space (Kitchen?) to make it into an apartment.
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logic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/April/2007 at 10:43am
Whatever is made of our zoning codes, eventually, this board has given us the opportunity to speak with the people most seriously affected. Instead of a blurb in the Review or council minutes, we've come to "know" these individuals whose very real problems/concerns could just as well be our own. As go these decisions, so potentially go the decisions for the majority of "stakeholders" who aren't a Hosty or Shaw or any number of people that don't have a leg in or up. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote conundrum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/April/2007 at 6:51am
I'm sorry - BUT THIS IS SOOO STRESSFUL - and I tempered my language for you all.

I have to go to my 4 hour class and sit still when all I want to do is crawl out of my skin and work on my building issues.

Possibly I will be put out of my misery tomorrow night.

Imagine it - 417 Circle possibly gone. I suffer the agony of photographers whose efforts to capture time can be futile - and I prefer architectural photography to almost anything else - ok - I also prefer to photograph people who have lived a lifetime... 80-100 year olds, they have a lifetime of stories written on their faces.

As I started to say, I suffer the agony of a photographer trying to capture time that can be so easily lost - I can imagine 417 Circle gone.

Everyone enjoy their day - I'm trying to put my agony in it's place.

Maybe after Tuesday I can go and see my grandmother finally. Start the documentary project of her 100th year, instead of her 99th.

Sorry, you all get my emotional outburst today - emotions have no place before the ZBA.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KPO'M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/April/2007 at 8:06am
Good luck tomorrow.  Maybe common sense will prevail. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/April/2007 at 9:29am
i think you'll do fine. the zba will be technical/political blahblah, but they only make recommendations. after the election, the vc will decide, and as the mayor said 'this is what variances are for.'
all best wishes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KPO'M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/April/2007 at 9:33am
Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

i think you'll do fine. the zba will be technical/political blahblah, but they only make recommendations. after the election, the vc will decide, and as the mayor said 'this is what variances are for.'
all best wishes.


To bad it will have taken until almost May and involved a few nasty letters in the process.  Hopefully the next cases are handled more professionally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/April/2007 at 9:50am
With the way the village has approached the situation at 417 it makes me wonder more and more about all the condo conversions that are within this r-1 district.  What happens if a building sustains damage?  The whole building is razed and a single-family home is put up?  The one that just recently occurred at the corner of Adams and Beloit is one that comes to mind.  Or the condos at Thomas near Harrison (from the map they are r-1 as well).  This whole thing just isn't right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/April/2007 at 9:58am
pie, while this would have to be super verified, a senior person in the bldg dept told me that once a property has been given a variance to build/convert, that property is considered a conforming property for life.
therefore, when 417 circle receives it's variance to fix damage & remain 2flat w/coach house, it will be a conforming property - forever. unless, of course, they change the rules again.
 


Edited by citizen - 09/April/2007 at 10:01am
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KPO'M View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KPO'M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/April/2007 at 10:11pm
[I'm told the ZBA meeting is actually tomorrow, so I'll re-post in 24 hours if I don't know the answer]

Edited by KPO'M - 09/April/2007 at 10:16pm
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conundrum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote conundrum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 6:53am
KPO'M The ZBA meeting is today at 7. Mike posts ZBA meetings in the Village News section. Maybe other in the village chairpeople will begin that practice as well. Seems like a good one to me. That's how I found out that 417 is the only thing on the agenda today. I am bracing myself...

Edited by conundrum - 10/April/2007 at 6:55am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote videoguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 3:17pm
Try to get them to explain why they want to destroy a building which has been no trouble for 77 years.

You are not going to change the outside of the property, just repair the inside. The street scape wont change.

You are an owner who is responsible, repairing and improving a fire damaged property, not leaving it there and trying to get insurance money as a scam.

It is a "taking" without compensation. The VC is on thin ice, regardless of what Sturino might think. Sets a bad precedent. Many other properties and future sales, values, and tax revenues are at risk from arbitrary zoning changes and rules.

Should have been grandfathered. If they want to attack density "issue" (which is not an issue), look toward regulating new development, not things which have been part of the village for decades.

Good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote conundrum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 3:33pm
Exactly.

Thanks for the well wishes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by videoguy videoguy wrote:

If they want to attack density "issue" (which is not an issue), look toward regulating new development, not things which have been part of the village for decades.

Good luck.
 
Yeah, like the Zoning board approving the reduced parking and 50% above density on the Roos development!
 
And Conundrum, Good Luck this evening.  A whole lot of people are watching and waiting on the outcome of this one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote conundrum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 4:03pm
Thanks everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KPO'M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 9:21pm
Dare I ask how things went?  Did common sense prevail?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 10:16pm

wrong question.

yes, the zba voted unanimously to reverse the bldg depts recommendation to demolish. ms. perry gets to keep her coach house. and her tenant paddy delaney.
 
long, long evening. lots of twists & turns. basically overturned on technicality - village could not prove it was vacant. their case was a 2 pointer:
1) ms. perry stated in a email that her coach house tenant was occupying 2nd floor (in december.) i believe she used the word vacant. her tenant testified that he was working on coach house and was back & forth from coach to 2nd, as a friend of his lived there.
2) if that doesn't make much sense, the case revolved around water. at some point in time, no one remembers, a radiator cracked. the tenant turned off the water main in the coach house to prevent flooding. village counters that no water was used for almost 1 year, and therefore, uninhabitable.
this is short story. good news.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KPO'M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 10:23pm
Technicality, huh?  So it sounds like good news for Amy Perry, but not necessarily good news for common sense (what if they could have proven "vacancy")?  That said, they could have been looking for an excuse to approve it.  Let's see what the VC does.  Anyway, the code still needs to be fixed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 10:36pm
It was a reasonable, fair decision by the ZBA, good for them and Ms Perry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 10:42pm
now hold on. it will take me about 1/2 hour of writing to re-cap the whole mtg.
few things:
1) this case is not going to the vc. curry stated at end of hearing that because village recommendation was rejected, it would not go to vc. i never heard that before. someone asked for clarification on this, but got lost in shuffle. the coach house is saved!
2) the zba moved for continuation of the 2 flat issue until may. they gave no reasons. but it was about 9:45pm
3) the really big issues leaked out a bit, but were not pertinent to the coach house issue.
4) mike boyle was pretty alone tonight. was getting a bit hot, too. i thought i was watching law & order. i thought paddy (tenant) was mass murderer.
let me write.
btw, plepel, tellalian, webster, nyberg & curry (obviously) were in attendance. not hosty tho, and this is his ballywick. also, rick vitton (historical society), steve bachman, , mary kay monihan (re: her own property), morris o'connor (owns a coach house on 500 elgin), and another new gentleman who owns property w/coach house. looking for guidance, but none available tonight. advice was to call the bldg dept. sure, i'll do that, cause i'm a complete idiot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeCurry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 11:05pm
Piehead, 
 
You said, "Yeah, like the Zoning board approving the reduced parking and 50% above density on the Roos development!"
 
Where did you obtain that information?
When did the ZBA approve reducing parking for the for the Roos?
 
The Roos property (and its issues) was never heard by the ZBA.
 
Thanks,
 
Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeCurry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 11:08pm
Citizen,
 
The hearing concerning the 2flat was continued because additional informatrion was submitted by the Village (and then by Ms. Perry's contractor).  It would have taken 30 minutes to 1 hour just to read and understand all the new information.
 
Thanks,
 
Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KPO'M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 11:10pm
Thanks for the clarifications, Mike.  Would you be able to address Citizen's first point, about how apparently the coach house is safe and won't be revisited by the Village Council? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeCurry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 11:24pm
9-10-5 of the Zoning Code concerns appeals. 
 
The ZBA is the final decision maker concerning this appeal.  Why?  The best answer I can give is "because the Code says so"...
 
I wish I had a better answer.
 
Brian, the Village attorney also confirmed this at the end of the hearing.
 
Thanks,
 
Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by MikeCurry MikeCurry wrote:

Citizen,
 
The hearing concerning the 2flat was continued because additional informatrion was submitted by the Village (and then by Ms. Perry's contractor).  It would have taken 30 minutes to 1 hour just to read and understand all the new information.
 
Thanks,
 
Mike
yes, that was my understanding, but wasn't stated.
maybe let's mike curry & conundrum post. i have the reporting style first, and then can say stuff that mike cannot, and stuff that conundrum might not have absorbed as she was most definitely not in reporter role tonight.
 
of course, good news.
 
but the underlying issues, and they are serious, are not on table. will have to wait til may. hope mike can explain as much as he can of tonights mtg, within constraints of his position. mike, it appears, sees the hurdle ahead, the underlying issues. namely, is our code even legal. that might be crux of 2flat hearing.
i don't make long, thoughtful posts this late. see you in the morning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote conundrum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/April/2007 at 11:43pm
Bleary eyed tonight - signing off with a 6AM wake up tomorrow. Thanks for everyone's support, both those who were there and those who were not.

Paddy is an excellent human being.

And people who have tenants like Paddy are lucky. I am a lucky landlord/building owner whatever the hell I am.

It was his home. I just own there.

Goodnight everyone. Looks like your stuck with me for a bit longer.

Actaully - I believe a lot longer - although all of the issues have not been resolved.

Keep those zoning issues in mind as you go vote. Trust me - they are crucial and you kneed people who know their stuff and are willing to speak their minds, work a room and keep order in place.

More later.

There are many good people in town.

(You know, I'm leaving that agregious spelling error above - Kneen vs Need - it is an odd sort of symbolism - that I have to think about after food and coffee at Joe's Diner... I could really use a Joe's Diner about now - alas, I have only myself for a short order cook - for those of you who saw me last night - I definately qualify for the short part - just not the cook part)

The morning calls for a little levity... and more spelling errors.



Edited by conundrum - 11/April/2007 at 11:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Deeds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/April/2007 at 1:54am
I'm so happy for you. When I read the recap it got me all misty eyed.
Best of luck in Round 2.

Those who can make you believe absurdities have the power to make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire~
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