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Strippers and Whores and Drugs OH MY !!!

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citizen View Drop Down
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i don't think this issue is simple. nor do i don't think folks who object to a strip club here are being prudish, close minded. and am not seeing much outrage.

to say strip clubs are about the 'beautiful female body in all its naturalness' is hogwash.
in theory, it's about gentlemen & ladies each getting what they want in a free, adult manner. free market.
 
the problem is reality. yeah, it's a business, and a fairly ruthless one. why? by most accounts, women (the product) often take these jobs under duress. few women aspire to a career in the sexual entertainment industry - they end up there by default. often in a fairly weakened position. a perfect set up for predatory behavior.
 
a poster said that scores was one of the better run clubs in the country. i'm not quite sure what that means. better for whom? like some factories are better to their child laborers than others?
 
yeah, it's a free country. but this type of business is not one i would feel proud of.
 
 
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How many suburbs that people want to live in have strip clubs?
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Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

 
the problem is reality. yeah, it's a business, and a fairly ruthless one. why? by most accounts, women (the product) often take these jobs under duress. few women aspire to a career in the sexual entertainment industry - they end up there by default. often in a fairly weakened position. a perfect set up for predatory behavior.
 
a poster said that scores was one of the better run clubs in the country. i'm not quite sure what that means. better for whom? like some factories are better to their child laborers than others? 



"By most accounts, women take these jobs under duress". Is that personal opinion or something based on fact? Most women i encountered who did such work, did it by choice. Just because they'd do something different if the pay was the same and they were offered the opportunity, does not mean they made the decision under "duress".

One of my daughters was offered a part time job at Kid Snips in Oak Brook. It was far to travel and didn't pay well, but she took it because it was available and she could work hours after school. Because she would have liked a better job, does that mean she accepted it under duress? I consider "duress" to mean that you were forced into doing something against your will. Making an uncomfortable personal decision is not the same thing. We all do what we need to survive. Not every job is the ideal job or our first choice. Sometimes though, it's a better option than the available alternatives.

Those who can make you believe absurdities have the power to make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire~
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A friend had a family member  that made the choice to strip because it afforded her the time and money to get her meth habit on track. The stripping led to many a "side job"  from patrons who wanted to spend quality time with her alone.  She has since kicked the meth habit and quit the job. She blames no one for her choices and she was never under duress..it was quick easy money. She now has a minimum wage job and is in school and very happy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/December/2007 at 11:22am
Would guess the reasons people become strippers vary. Believe for some it's a well-thought out choice, for others (especially the young women) not and yet for others a job taken under duress. It still comes down to the same thing, women as objects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/December/2007 at 12:00pm
admin, meant duress in the sense of pressure, for income. poor choice of word.
 
always an argument to be made for expediency. we all have to deal w/it every day. bad bosses, dead end jobs, no jobs, etc.
 
sex for money, tho, just get's no respect. we say one thing, but feel another.
can you imagine...
at a get-together. "hi, blah blah blah. how are the kids? what's your daughter doing this summer? she's a stripper at scores in forest park. it's great money. she'll be a junior this fall. we're really proud of her."
 
at the neighborhood bar. "so what is your son up to? what's is he doing w/that english degree? well, you probably didn't know this, but he's got are really big wanger. he's doing porn films and making tons of money. his mother and i couldn't be prouder."
 
applying for a job. "i see you worked for a few years at scores. what's that?"
 
annual family picnic. "sorry about that downsizing. no job yet? jeez, how are you and martha getting by? actually, martha is the breadwinner these days. making really good money as a stripper downtown. she loves it, really feels she is coming into her own."
 
c'mon. it just doesn't work. we're conflicted.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/December/2007 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

c'mon. it just doesn't work. we're conflicted.
Of course we're conflicted, how does one go about seeing someone else's wife, mother, daughter, son as nothing more than a sexual object/product for entertainment purposes and yet we view our beloved as humans beings, their sexuality only part of what makes them who they are?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passer By Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/December/2007 at 1:14pm
i am worried that a "gentlemen's club" will just ad on to our already dubious reputation as watering hole of the west.  foest park, 15000 people, two dozen bars! i work downtown and every body knows forest park for it's bars! it's been along hard road to promote the shops and restaurants but i bet that once we get a g-club, that news will travel like wild fire. i think we're being set up for a g-club. those in charge arer now learning how to deal with us based on all we've said here so far. whos for and whos against. watch, they will have an answer for everything when the time comes. just because this may sound like a consperacy theory to some dosen't mean it won't happen
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Admin, would you have encouraged your daughter to take a job at Scores as a stripper, since it might pay better than minimum wage and she could work hours that wouldn't conflict with her classes?
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Originally posted by Passer By Passer By wrote:

i am worried that a "gentlemen's club" will just ad on to our already dubious reputation as watering hole of the west.  foest park, 15000 people, two dozen bars! i work downtown and every body knows forest park for it's bars! it's been along hard road to promote the shops and restaurants but i bet that once we get a g-club, that news will travel like wild fire. i think we're being set up for a g-club. those in charge arer now learning how to deal with us based on all we've said here so far. whos for and whos against. watch, they will have an answer for everything when the time comes. just because this may sound like a consperacy theory to some dosen't mean it won't happen
 
I can see it now; one of those big billboards on the Ike with directions to the new FP Scores!  Easy on easy off Confused  access
 
And we know how the council has been duped before.  Remember Zambonie's was supposed to be a high end Italian restaurant......hardly (in order to get their liquor license) what it has turned out to be.
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Originally posted by Katie Katie wrote:

Admin, would you have encouraged your daughter to take a job at Scores as a stripper, since it might pay better than minimum wage and she could work hours that wouldn't conflict with her classes?


Nice try. I never said I would encourage anyone to anyone to take a job like that. If you read it correctly, I was just pointing out that most women are not taking these jobs under duress as Citizen claimed. I'm sure a few have been, but not the majority. For the most part, it's a matter of choice. I never said it was the best choice, but a choice none the less.

My girl happens to be a trained dancer, but not THAT kind. Being of legal age, I couldn't stop her if she so chooses, but I'd never encourage or support it. What do you think i am, a monster or something?

Those who can make you believe absurdities have the power to make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire~
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New Forest Park Slogan...Easy in Easy out Wink and a Stripper on a Pole painted on our water towers.
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Originally posted by Passer By Passer By wrote:

i am worried that a "gentlemen's club" will just ad on to our already dubious reputation as watering hole of the west.  foest park, 15000 people, two dozen bars!. . .it's been along hard road to promote the shops and restaurants


For me this is also a big point. I have argued for years that there are too many bars in this town. It is not sound economics to be known as a place to get drunk, OR see naked chicks dancing. For me there is a direct correlation between being mayor, raising campaign funds, and being liquor commissioner. Perhaps if the job went to someone else, there would be less bars. In the meantime, this kind of thing illustrates why you dont spend $300,000 on a rundown building with no plans for it. This is why you dont give the YMCA a $2,000,000. price cut without anything in return. This is why you dont spend the "rainy day fund" which I believe is gone. Because when we really need to buy a property, the money is not there. And if the state law basically precluded the operation of such a place in this town, then why did the VC change the law? Why not let this del Gigolo guy just sue and waste his money? Let him test the law. Dont give it to him. I'll say it one more time---Calderone is not a smart guy. And he doesnt let smarter people make decisions. That is probably due to an inferiority complex due to his height. But we are the ones who suffer. When are the other people--the VC, Sturino, etc., going to grow a pair?
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No, Admin, I don't think you are a monster. But I have been somewhat mystified by your "this is a choice" position about those working in this industry.  I had been under the impression, from your previous postings, that you thought this was an acceptable alternative for a young woman to take in order to support herself. If I misunderstood that, I'm sorry.  I guess I see financial or addiction pressures as decisions being made under duress and therefore not necessarily a choice these women would make if other alternatives were available. (How clearly can you think when you can't pay the rent?) While there may be women who are working in the industry voluntarily, it would be interesting to find out how many of them would stay in it if offered a job making the same kind of money and offering similar hours in a different industry.
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The problem is as long as men keep tossing money at them most of these women will stay on the pole and on their backs...the lure of fancy cars,nice clothes,and if they put out after hrs quite possibly a sugar daddy on retainer.
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It's good to have dreams & goals. 
Those who can make you believe absurdities have the power to make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire~
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Originally posted by Passer By Passer By wrote:

i think we're being set up for a g-club. those in charge arer now learning how to deal with us based on all we've said here so far. whos for and whos against. watch, they will have an answer for everything when the time comes. just because this may sound like a consperacy theory to some dosen't mean it won't happen
 
why do you think this?
past practises, or something current?
p.s. what does the 'g' stand for?
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Originally posted by administrator administrator wrote:

It's good to have dreams & goals. 
 
what do you mean by 'choice' :)
 
so, we're saying young women choose this job/career, even tho they:
  • would be ashamed to tell their family
  • could never put that experience on a resume
  • would be a difficult choice to explain to serious boyfriend/marriage partner
  • might not want to share that history w/their children
  • etc.
yeah, free as a bird.
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Thought the same as Passer By when the story about the flurry of regulations being put in place first appeared in the Review, it was as if those looking to open an adult entertainment  business were given a map of FP and directed "here" not "there". Also thought I understood the change from state law 1000' to village reg 500'. 1000' would rule out FP totally, 500' would put FP in compliance with fed law. Now I'm not so sure. As VG stated, FP had the state law why change it, let Wessels/DeGora fight it in court. If this is an elaborate charade being played out by the majority VC, we'll all know soon enough.  
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I would have to think that Rory would be opposed as he is a father to very young children as is Mark..dont think Mike Curry has kids,but he does seem to have morals,hope that Marty would be opposed also. Tony already stated he is not in favor..so hopefully these to guys will go to Stone Park or anywhere but here.
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Yeah, we definitely have to keep the kids out of those places!

Those who can make you believe absurdities have the power to make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire~
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Its not about bringing them to the clubs ya big goofball..its about what the club will bring to this town..signs out front advertising,mailers advertising,billboards..kids are not stupid they read and see..
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Those who can make you believe absurdities have the power to make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire~
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Your a comic genius !!!Clap
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Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

Thought the same as Passer By when the story about the flurry of regulations being put in place first appeared in the Review, it was as if those looking to open an adult entertainment  business were given a map of FP and directed "here" not "there". Also thought I understood the change from state law 1000' to village reg 500'. 1000' would rule out FP totally, 500' would put FP in compliance with fed law. Now I'm not so sure. As VG stated, FP had the state law why change it, let Wessels/DeGora fight it in court. If this is an elaborate charade being played out by the majority VC, we'll all know soon enough.  
 
i love paranoia. so often turns out it's not.
 
must say, i take great comfort that tellalian is on board. the greatest complaint is he asks alot of questions. not a problem for me. i have no doubt he's keeping tabs on village issues and will keep the town informed.
 
not saying curry or hoskins are not also, just don't know yet as they don't say much on the vc.
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so far it seems that curry and hoskins only say what they are told/allowed to say.  it's an iteresting council, 5 men, 1 set of testicles.
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Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

Also thought I understood the change from state law 1000' to village reg 500'. 1000' would rule out FP totally, 500' would put FP in compliance with fed law. Now I'm not so sure. As VG stated, FP had the state law why change it, let Wessels/DeGora fight it in court.


This is what anyone normal would do, I would think. Why should we cirumvent State law in some attempt to forestall a lawsuit? If Tassles and Gigolo want to threaten "it will cost money", go ahead, hire your lawyers and try to overturn State statute. But it doesnt work that way, does it? Sturino, Calderone, Rosemont, Melrose Park, they take care of their boys, capische?
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Originally posted by Passer Passer wrote:

It's an iteresting council, 5 men, 1 set of testicles.


Steinbach had more balls than these eunuchs.
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"Tassles and Gigolo"

 
nice, vg. LOL
can we add a couple of 'Da's?'
 
with your permission, the strip club initiative will always and forever be known and referred to as the "DaTassels & DaGilolo Gambit."
 
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My pleasure.
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