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Wonder why FP doesn't do this?

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piehead View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07/May/2008 at 11:49am
http://wednesdayjournalonline.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=11155
 
With our village in the red, this would be income.  It's already in:  "Several nearby municipalities, including Berwyn, Countryside, Cicero, Downers Grove, Justice, Riverside, Lyons and Chicago have adopted similar ordinances."
 
"The village will impose a $500 administrative fee for release of the vehicle. That fee is in addition to any other fines or fees assessed, such as towing and storage fees and traffic fines." 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote videoguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/May/2008 at 11:30am
Why dont we do it? Because it makes too much sense! I said this before, again and again. Electing people (Calderone, GW Bush) because we think they are "like us" instead of electing people with skills and intelligence only gets us moronic "leaders" who dont know how to do a damn thing right. The problem with FP is that there are still too many beer and shot losers who think its all a joke. Their numbers, through death and gentrification, are declining, but there are still enough of them around who think that its better to have a dropout like Calderone for mayor than a DePaul professor like Steinbach. And the rest of us suffer for their stupidity. Just like when McCain becomes President because the dumb ass hillbillies wont vote for Obama.

Edited by videoguy - 09/May/2008 at 11:30am
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While towing cars might seem like a lucrative idea, we have a police department that can’t grasp the concept of not beating prisoners or firing credentialed employees.  How will they ever decide which cars to tow?  Since most people driving around without a proper license tend to be poor, do we want to start collecting junks cars, or are the cops going to start eyeing people driving nice cars and find a reason to stop them so they can tow their car? 

 

Remember the towing of the cars driven by Hispanics in Cicero?  The mayor there at the time had a politically connected tow company that was kicking back to her campaign fund because they were doing so well.  Think that could happen here?    

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2008 at 9:03am
Well tree frog, if the people driving around without a proper license are poor and have no insurance YES we want to get it off the road.  If you don't have a license and insurance, you should not be driving a car.  Period.  And if you commit a crime and get caught, even more reason to pull the car.

Edited by piehead - 10/May/2008 at 9:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2008 at 11:51am
Jim Crow lite?

I wish things were as simple as you seem to think they are.

"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2008 at 11:55am
Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:

Jim Crow lite?

I wish things were as simple as you seem to think they are.

 
Please explain what that is supposed to mean or what you are trying to say.At%20a%20loss
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dogcatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2008 at 12:08pm
I got it. Nobody is calling for racial segregation..nice try tho.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2008 at 2:14pm
There's more than one way to skin a cat.
and no DC you didn't get it.

Society prepares the crime for its own purposes.
That the punishment for crimes normally attributed to certain races, classes of people are disproportionate shouldn't pass constitutional muster, but our courts are only human too.

Since you can't say that side of it affects you, it's easy to view as
inconsequential. It's about suppression, attrition and hegemony.

Look it up.








Edited by watcher - 10/May/2008 at 2:15pm
"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2008 at 3:30pm
I'm still lost.  Why so obtuse watcher?  Can you say in plain English what you are trying to get across.  Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2008 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

I'm still lost.  Why so obtuse watcher?  Can you say in plain English what you are trying to get across.  Thanks.
 
you know that is just a challenge to watcher :)
on rare occasions he can be stubbornly obtuse.
 
i think what he is saying (he might have to jump on to correct me - this is a trick) some laws are just a set-up for certain folks.
in this case, who do you suppose are driving w/out licenses or insurance? yeah.
or, why is crack cocaine punished a million times more harshly than 'regular' coke?
or, why does bear stearns get a govt bailout for their poor judgement, but - well fill in the blank.
i suppose it is fair to say no one should break the law or rules - ever. but the law doesn't seem to behave that way, does it? it's always easier to focus the rule of law on the least powerful.
 
anyone look up hegemony?
 
and besides all that, i don't trust FPPD to apply the law properly. they have some serious work to do to regain my trust.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2008 at 6:00pm
It's not obtuse. You just refuse to see it because it's not YOU or just that you have the means/option to conform.

Insurance is mandatory yet you still carry uninsured motorist insurance on your policy. That assumes risk on your part that there could be uninsured motorists on the roads. If they cause an accident they are still liable for the damages, but your extra insurance protects you against loss.

Driving without insurance is a crapshoot. If you manage to avoid getting stopped or in an accident, you've saved yourself the cost of the premiums. An unlicensed person can still buy a car, register it and insure it. The three acts are not related? The vehicle stickers that are so near and dear to you? Not part of the non-system either unless the village is willing to pay. They aren't?

The reasons for suspending a driver's license have increased at least 10 fold in the recent past. So MANY drivers were getting messed up by the IEPA suspensions that they now only suspend the plate on the untested vehicle. Everyone who paid a fine for an IEPA suspension for driving any other vehicle should get a refund right?

Like the seat belt law. A great idea, but it's debatable that it was implemented for anything to do with safety. Now it's red light cameras and drive-by speed traps.

How about I-Pass? Blago screwed up when he introduced it. He said it would give police the means to track motorists' movements. The technology is certainly capable and the equipment is already in place to make it happen, but it was meant to be an UNADVERTISED feature of the system. SFAIK, there is an injunction against the system being used for surveilance purposes.

But to you it's all cut and dried or should be? Absolute?
It's an imperfect system wielded imperfectly and disproportionately at a targeted subset of the population.

For now, you've managed to avoid entanglements? It's postitively doubtful that this is because you've never transgressed. If/When you did get caught you paid your fine and went on about your life?

That it is used toward hegemony makes it an even more screwed up system.
But f**k it, one more law will fix everything right?






"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tree Frog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2008 at 6:03pm

I’m fairly conservative when it comes to the law, but is fairly easy to see the potential for abuse here. What if there is somebody properly licensed in the car that is able to drive it away other than the person arrested?  Does that car get towed?  What if the car belongs to a poor family with three drivers, all of whom depend on that car for work and the car is confiscated?    Should they all lose their jobs?  What if one officer is by the book and tows everybody’s’ car; another officer is nice and doesn’t tow anybodies’ car; and yet  another officer is mean and only tows the cars of people he chooses to punish?

These are the types of laws that get applied unevenly and tend to be applied mostly against those who are powerless to defend themselves.  This law will be nothing but trouble for those towns that adopt it.

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If the offender is driving someone else's car ask yourself why? If there are 3 people in the car with a license why let the criminal drive?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2008 at 7:44pm
Fine, forget it all, let's all not get insurance or licenses.  Why bother?  Oh yeah, some of us play by the rules.  Sorry, but I also expect the same by others.  And if you can't you shouldn't have a car.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2008 at 7:59pm
btw, i was talking to a black professional woman the other night.
she says blacks - if possible - avoid driving thru FP because they feel they will be 'pulled over.'
i was shocked. is that really our reputation?
 
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Gosh I sure hope so,Thumbs%20Down Maybe she feels this way because she knows some homeboys who got busted here?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2008 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

btw, i was talking to a black professional woman the other night.
she says blacks - if possible - avoid driving thru FP because they feel they will be 'pulled over.'
i was shocked. is that really our reputation?
 
 
Maybe that WAS our reputation, but get real.  Isn't half the population of FP black.  Where does this black professional woman live, in the 70's?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2008 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

btw, i was talking to a black professional woman the other night.
she says blacks - if possible - avoid driving thru FP because they feel they will be 'pulled over.'
i was shocked. is that really our reputation?
 
 
Maybe that WAS our reputation, but get real.  Isn't half the population of FP black.  Where does this black professional woman live, in the 70's?
 
see above post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tree Frog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2008 at 10:48pm

Don’t be angry Piehead, be pragmatic.  I think what Watcher was saying is let’s not create laws to address the behavior of certain sub-groups, but rather, let’s create laws that are fair and enforceable against everybody. 

What concern is being addressed by this idea that we should start towing cars?  Who are the offenders that have so enraged the framers that only confiscating their cars will satisfy them?  What are we ultimately trying to accomplish?

Is it immigration?  Is it fair housing?  Is it poorly educated children?  Whatever the issue let’s identify the root cause and fix it. 

BTW:  electing a left wing socialist doesn’t solve the problem, it only exasperates it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/May/2008 at 8:54am
Originally posted by Tree Frog Tree Frog wrote:

Don’t be angry Piehead, be pragmatic.  I think what Watcher was saying is let’s not create laws to address the behavior of certain sub-groups, but rather, let’s create laws that are fair and enforceable against everybody. 

What concern is being addressed by this idea that we should start towing cars?  Who are the offenders that have so enraged the framers that only confiscating their cars will satisfy them?  What are we ultimately trying to accomplish?

I'm not angry.  But to your way of thinking then, are the laws I follow only expected to be followed by certain people and if you can't, then it's unfair to the ones who chose not to follow them?  What if we all decided we didn't need licenses or insurance?  
 
The concern being addressed is that some people believe the laws do not pertain to them and therefore, they don't comply.  Just because I don't like a certain law I still am bound by it.  We don't get to pick and choose.   If everyone complied, perhaps our insurance rates wouldn't be so high.  Perhaps there'd be a few less cars on the road (or on the side of the road).
 
An example of people who don't follow the rules:  A friend had her father hit by a car load of drunk people at 7:00 in the morning downtown (he was walking for a cup of coffee).  No licenses, no insurance.  They were released on an I Bond.  They all went back to Mexico or changed their names and SS#s, but no one showed up for court.  Her father ended up dying from the injuries sustained.  IF they followed the laws of this country, he might still be alive and enjoying his retirement and his grandchildren, because they instead would have had to stay home and drink or commute by bus or el (Chicago has a great system in place to get you from point a to point b by the way). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tree Frog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/May/2008 at 11:27am

I should amend my statement above to mean “ordinances”, not “laws”.  I agree with you completely.  All people should follow all laws.  Laws need to specific, fairly written and enforceable. 

My problem with ordinances like this towing ordinance is they are created by small minded people like Mark Hosty and are intended to attack the type of behavior and people he doesn’t like.  These types of ordinances are impossible to enforce evenly thus allowing the police to enforce them arbitrarily.    

Arbitrary equals discriminatory equals violation of civil rights equals lawsuit.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote videoguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/May/2008 at 2:41pm
BS BS BS BS BS

ALL laws and ordinances are aimed at "subgroups", as you put it. Such subgroups include drug dealers, murderers, rapists, pedophiles, people who ignore traffic signals, AND driving while drunk, DUI, etc. We are LUCKY that these morons are subgroups, and not indicative of society as a whole. If they did not engage in these behaviors, they would not BE in a subgroup, and would not be in trouble.

Police are permitted to use their discretion and judgement when writing someone up or pulling them over. There will always be times when that system is inperfect due to the human element. But do we then just say its OK to violate the laws?

Watcher likes to think that he/she is an anarchist and that no laws are good. Easy to say until you or yours gets affected by some loser in a "subgroup" who thinks the law is a joke.

This is why people hate liberals. You have your heads so far up your asses that you cant even see what is plainly obvious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/May/2008 at 11:55am
Originally posted by videoguy videoguy wrote:

BS BS BS BS BS

ALL laws and ordinances are aimed at "subgroups", as you put it. Such subgroups include drug dealers, murderers, rapists, pedophiles, people who ignore traffic signals, AND driving while drunk, DUI, etc. We are LUCKY that these morons are subgroups, and not indicative of society as a whole. If they did not engage in these behaviors, they would not BE in a subgroup, and would not be in trouble.

Police are permitted to use their discretion and judgement when writing someone up or pulling them over. There will always be times when that system is inperfect due to the human element. But do we then just say its OK to violate the laws?

Watcher likes to think that he/she is an anarchist and that no laws are good. Easy to say until you or yours gets affected by some loser in a "subgroup" who thinks the law is a joke.

This is why people hate liberals. You have your heads so far up your asses that you cant even see what is plainly obvious.



You forgot jaywalkers, cell-phone users, bikers, drug-USERS (without whom there would be no drug dealers), consensual sex participants (using a fee-based system), loiterers, the homeless, protesters, environmentalists, trespassers, litterers, public nuisances andonandon... pass a law. That'll fix it right?

Videoguy likes to think that it's people like ME who complicate his life. What chance do I have to do that?
Being as my head is up my ass and all...?

Is it because there is a reaction to the ideas, precepts and concepts that I espouse or the ideas, precepts and concepts themselves? That we as free individuals are responsible for our own actions?
That so long as those actions have minimal impact on your freedoms, they are not actionable offenses?

It's convenient for you to blame me and what you term my ilk for the ills of society. That's your right I suppose, but the steady march to an authoritarian society has much more to do with your cheerleading of it, than my objections to it.

What gave you the right to diminish mine?

"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote videoguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14/May/2008 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:



You forgot jaywalkers, cell-phone users, bikers, drug-USERS (without whom there would be no drug dealers), consensual sex participants (using a fee-based system), loiterers, the homeless, protesters, environmentalists, trespassers, litterers. . .

THANKS FOR REMINDING ME. MY BAD, WE ALREADY HAVE LAWS AGAINST ALL THAT.

Videoguy likes to think that it's people like ME who complicate his life.

EXACTLY.

Is it because there is a reaction to the ideas, precepts and concepts that I espouse or the ideas, precepts and concepts themselves? That we as free individuals are responsible for our own actions?
That so long as those actions have minimal impact on your freedoms, they are not actionable offenses?

AND THE GREAT WATCHER DECIDES WHICH, UNLIKE SOCIETY AT LARGE.

What gave you the right to diminish mine?

BLOWHARDER, BLOWHARD

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14/May/2008 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by videoguy videoguy wrote:


A) THANKS FOR REMINDING ME. MY BAD, WE ALREADY HAVE LAWS AGAINST ALL THAT.

B)EXACTLY.

C)AND THE GREAT WATCHER DECIDES WHICH, UNLIKE SOCIETY AT LARGE.

D) BLOWHARDER, BLOWHARD


A)Not enough evidently. How many more do you figure it'll take?

B)When they come for you, you expect me leading the charge?
Evidently, they've already penned you.
What a domesticated farce you really are.
I've done NOTHING to you. What you OTOH, have allowed to be done
to others is something you have to reconcile.

C) Society at Large? Cite please. I'm on record not wanting to interfere with your affairs.

D)No need. You suck enough to more than compensate.




"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/July/2008 at 2:06pm

staying on topic - why doesn't FP do this?

lengthy, front page story in wednesday journal this week by bill dwyer. essentially the village of RF hired outside consultants to analyze the PD's problems (in april) and the story explains the findings.
 
seems pretty efficient to me - took them less than 3 months and the findings seem clear & workable.
 
haley sums it up: "the outside consultants have weighed in on the teeth-gnashing endemic within the RFPD. long story short: the 10 top-ranking people in the department can't stand one another, undermine each other every chance they get. fortunately, the patrol officers are still doing a good job and crime is low."
 
 
 
 
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no response. i don't blame you.
 
but. it is important we know that 'other' towns and villages take proactive measures.
or that various dissenters out-game the insiders, and insist on accountability from their government.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/July/2008 at 10:47am
"Proactive"? As in "acting in anticipation of future problems, needs, or changes"?

Just what town do you think you live in, Citizen? Everyone here knows it's so much easier to be merely reactive, then blame the media and your political opponents when it all goes to s.h.i.t.
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