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logic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 1:03pm
How nice you want to involve me, Mr D, but you are rude and disrespectful, that behavior doesn't promote discussion or debate. If it's a war of words you're after, you'll need look elsewhere, I'm not on desperate ground, will not fight.

Edited by logic - 30/July/2008 at 1:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl Nyberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:


With all due respect, neither Judge Moran nor prosecutor Acosta can make a determination on the FPPD as a unit. The decisions in the Murphy case, Harder suit are based on specific incidents and do not represent the actions of the PD as a whole.
Did Murphy commit a crime in his beating of Hooks and filing a false report?
 
Why wasn't Murphy held accountable by the Cook County State's Attorney?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 2:50pm
Is there a connection between the highlighted post and your questions, Mr Nyberg?
Don't see it. What response are you expecting? You can answer your questions better than just about anyone, so put it out here.

Edited by logic - 30/July/2008 at 3:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 3:23pm
Now, now, you've talked enough today with disrespectful and rude people so annoyingly intent on bringing up troubling facts that might actually force you to think, Illogic.

Go back to putting your head in the sand and pretend you can make the world go away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl Nyberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 3:27pm

If you answer the questions I will lead you through the forest and show you the connection.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 3:59pm
Haven't always agreed with Mr Nyberg but also have never known him to be rude or disrespectful to any poster on this forum.

If you are the leader you claim, Mr Nyberg, then please, take our hands and begin the journey:) No stipulations.

Edited by logic - 30/July/2008 at 4:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl Nyberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 4:04pm
Did Murphy commit a crime in his beating of Hooks and filing a false report?
 
Why wasn't Murphy held accountable by the Cook County State's Attorney?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by Carl Nyberg Carl Nyberg wrote:

Did Murphy commit a crime in his beating of Hooks and filing a false report?
 
Why wasn't Murphy held accountable by the Cook County State's Attorney?


If you know the answers, why do you keep asking the same question over and over again?  We can all read here you know.  If you know the answer, then answer your questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 7:02pm
Hmm, no answer, Carl.

Are you sure you weren't rude in some unfathomable manner only Illogic can discern?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 7:11pm
Against my better judgment will answer this, Mr D. Did answer Mr Nyberg but, as usual, it wasn't the answer either he or you wanted to read. So, at least, I'm consistent:)


Edited by logic - 30/July/2008 at 7:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 7:16pm
yes, Illogic. You certainly are at least that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 8:23pm


I got some Midol if you need some Mr. D.
All right everyone, line up alphabetically according to your height.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 8:39pm
Oh my my my.... Isis is questioning my masculinity now. I'd better stop this all before she reduces me to a weepy pile of tears.

Right. On to the 19 page transcript of the Murphy sentencing, which shows both a federal prosecutor suggesting strongly that he doesn’t think Mike Murphy was the only person who should have been held accountable in the Sidney Hooks case, and a judge stating he thinks the prosecution was quite generous with its charge sheet against Murphy.

We'll start with the prosecutor's comments, since I neither want to type all this tonight nor have it be too long a post, since FPF isn't able to upload PDFs, despite claiming otherwise.

Murphy Sentencing, July 9, 2008, 9:40 a.m.
Present: Judge David Coar, AUSA Segio Acosta, Defense Atty Rick Halperin, associate Dinamarie Cale, Mr, Todd McKechnie of US Probation Office and Court Reporter Tracey Dana McCullough, CSR, RPR.

After a round of Good morning greetings, they get down to business.

Judge Coar: “All right now, let’s just review the guideline calculations on the report. The total offense level of 29, criminal history of 1. So that would call for a guideline range of 87 to 108 months. This offense was charged as a misdemeanor, so the statute would cap the guidelines at 12 months. We all agree on that?”

They all agree, except AUSA Acosta asks to clarify.
Acosta: Your Honor, there’s a few things I want to say because there has been, as the court has noted, a memorandum submitted on behalf of Officer Murphy, as well as a number of letters, Judge. It seems to me, your honor, a few things need to be noted here today. (He then refers to some of the letters)

Judge, I want to put that into context a little bit for the court, because I think there are some issues with Chief Ryan’s handling of this matter from the beginning that need to be pointed put to the court. In his letter, Judge, his letter of May 12, 2008, Chief Ryan notes that an internal investigation was conducted and it was believed that Sergeant Murphy used more force than was necessart to effect this arrest.

Judge, that is a great understatement. There was no basis for this arrest as agreed to by Mr. Murphy under oath in his plea agreement. Judge, what happened was Mr. Murphy approached Mr. Hooks, sprayed him n the face when he was incapacitated, and again, all of this for no reason whatever, took out his baton and hit him. Resulting in a broken wrist on the victim. But it goes beyond that, Judge. That was the excessive use of force. That was the crime.

But it goes beyond that. He then prepared a false report, tried to get Officer Grimes, who was his subordinate, to sign off on a false complaint. When he wouldn’t do it, Murphy went ahead and did it. He was prepared to prosecute Mr. Hooks, go to court and testify falsely against Mr. Hooks, claiming that he committed some crime he hadn’t committed.
For the Chief to say that his review was simply that this was an excessive use of force in effectuating an arrest is simply wrong, Judge. And what did the Chief do about this? He says since this time, since this event, nothing more has happened with Mr. Murphy. He sent him to counseling, which is good, and we recommend that counseling can be a good thing and apparently has been a good thing in this case.

Judge, a crime was committed. The Chief of Police of this department was aware of the fact that a crime was committed and took no action, took no action whatsoever.
So when you read the letter from Chief Ryan, and also keep in mind, Judge, as is pointed out in the sentencing memo, that at one point Mr. Halperin did bring some matters to our attention that effected the quality of the government’s case. Specifically that had to do with one of the other officers on the scene, former officer now by the name of David Hohl.

Hohl, Judge, to put this out there, moved to Ohio, applied to become a police officer out there. Was going to move to Ohio. A report came back to Chief Ryan from the police department in Ohio which reflected that Mr. Hohl had admitted, among other things, committing perjury on at least five occasions as a police officer, taking things from people that he had arrested, physically abusing people in his custody. As well as pulling over on one occasion a woman simply because he thought she was good looking.

After Chief Ryan found out about Ofc. Hohl’s misconduct, he allowed Ofc. Hohl to continue on in the… Forest Park Police Department. Continue on as a patrol officer.

Nothing done to go back and find out what cases did this man commit perjury, in what cases did he abuse prisoners in his custody. So that is the police department that we’re talking about, Judge. And I don’t mean to paint with a broad brush. There are many many very good police officers there who are trying to do a good job day in and day out.

But when Chief Ryan submits to the court a letter saying that all that occurred here was a little bit of excessive force on one occasion, that’s downplaying to the ultimate degree, Judge, what occurred here and what should have been done. There should have been a criminal referral from the beginning of this case.

One other thing I’d like to address with the court has to do with the issue of stress, that Mr. Murphy was under a great deal of stress because of an unfortunate situation where a member of the department came to him and said as a supervisor there has been this harassment, and Mr. Murphy then had to deal with that.

Judge, unfortunately that goes on in a lot of places, in a lot of work situations every day of the year. And people who are in a position of authority and supervisors have an obligationand a responsibility. Officer Murphy did what he had to do. He reported it. But to somehow try to – and I’m not saying they’re trying to justify it—but to somehow even explain the assault on Sidney Hooks because Mr. Murphy was under some sort of stree because he had to report a supervisor for sexual harassment doesn’t make sense, Judge.

The person in this case who really had to deal with a lot of stress and hasn’t had a courtroom full of people supporting him or a commendation or anything else was Ofc. Harold Grimes, who witnessed his supervisor beat someone for no reason, and then was confronted by that same supervisor who was trying to get him to sign a false complaint.

Harold Grimes did the right thing. Harold Grimes stood up to that stress, stood up to that pressure, did his job like a professional. He was not a supervisor, Judge. He’s a patrol officer. Harold Grimes has not gone out and beaten anyone as a result of that stress. He’s continued on. Been a good police officer, doing his job.

So by contrast for Mr. Murphy to stand before you and tell you that because of some internal strife at the police department that that somehow resulted in his assaulting Mr. Hooks on that day I August 2003, doesn’t hold water, Judge.


More to come, folks, for those who give a damn.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 9:47pm
Here's the abridged version:

Good morning, Murphy bad, Hohl bad, Ryan bad, Grimes good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 10:21pm
You're intellect is seriously abridged, Illogic.

Isis, I give in. I'll take that a Midol. Illogic is making me cramp up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 10:27pm
Mr Nyberg, why do you need someone else to turn the key and open the forest gates? Even if we know something to be true, don't have the proof to back it up, it's speculation. You are much more knowledgeable than most on matters Proviso/FP, have been following the trails long enough to reach credible conclusions. Though there is a lot a leeway on what can be stated, opined, care needs be taken in how much of ourselves we choose to expose.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote somebody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 10:42pm
Here's Logic teaching 6th grade history:
 
Good morning, Holacaust bad, Rwanda genecide bad, apartied bad, Bill Gates good.
 
Is that all you get from what was posted above? Murphy's actions make him sound like a monster. That was someone's son, brother, uncle, father. That could be one of your kids. Those are not the actions of a hero. Do you believe this was an isolated instance?
 
It's sickening. Your lack of compassion and empathy is disturbing. I guess you support the players in that sentencing report. What if it was your son/daughter that was beaten, charged with a crime they did not commit and sat in jail and had to go to court, because a supervisor on the Forest Park Police Department could not control himself.
 
How would you like to be one of the people who former officer Hohl arrested and perjured himself and now is in jail? You would be outraged and you should be, because that is beyond belief. How would you like to be abused while in custody? Try to picture yourself behind bars and one or a group of officers physically abusing you. You would be outraged and you should be, because that is unbelievable. How would you like to have your property stolen from you, by the very officer who arrested you. You would be outraged and you should be, because that is evil.
 
How would you feel if the one person who could make everything right, just ignored the Hohl/whole thing? You would be outraged and you should be, because that is the ultimate evil.
 
Instead of giving an abridged version, you should be asking for justice, because if anyone in your family or someone you loved suffered from this evil, you would want justice. Check your moral compass, you may want to make a turn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 10:47pm
 ^^^^^ called bait and switch. I'll bite my tongue on this one, somebody and promise to check my moral compass if you do the same.


Edited by logic - 30/July/2008 at 10:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote somebody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 10:58pm

You openly support evil actions and you feel a need to bite your tongue? If there was a time to bite your tongue, that time is long gone.

Since you did not answer any of the questions, I have to assume that you are not interested in justice right? We should just chalk this up and go on our merry ways?
 
You don't think the people who Hohl abused should have justice? You don't think there is a very serious problem here, that needs attention? Is this condition ok with you? Have you lost your soul?
 
Instead of biting your tongue, please in God's name speak on behalf of those who were abused by people who misused their power. Just say something about their pain and suffering and I won't have another word with you.
 
Please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2008 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by somebody somebody wrote:

I won't have another word with you.
Good, Thank you

What did you do with the money your mother gave you for acting lessons?


Edited by logic - 30/July/2008 at 11:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31/July/2008 at 9:53am
More from Acosta, finishing page 8 of the Murphy sentencing hearing:

Now, we say in the plea agreement that we will set forth all matters in aggravation and mitigation at the time of sentencing. I’ve told you about what we believe are the aggravating factors. The mitigating factors, judge, are set forth in the letters of support that you’ve seen on behalf of Mr. Murphy. Mr. Halperin has done a superb job of bringing out all of the mitigating factors.
We don’t think, however, that this business about stress from the internal strife in the police department is truly a matter in mitigation that Your Honor ought to consider in imposing sentence.

It is a joint recommendation. It is the satisfactory maximum. We ask that you impose a sentence of 12 months in prison.

THE JUDGE THEN INVITES HALPERIN TO SPEAK. USING ILLOGIC’S ABRIDGED APPROACH, HALPERIN TOLD THE JUDGE:
“Murphy stressed, Ryan sensitive boss, Murphy’s been punished enough, shouldn’t go to prison.”

Murphy then told the judge, again, in abridged fashion:
“I’m regretful and so sad now, it was caused by my loss of bearing.”

Did I get that right, Illogic, or does your approach suffer from a certain lack of nuance?

Anyways, back to the fully nuanced court record, the judge’s response:

Judge Coar: It’s not my role to pass judgment on Chief Ryan. But to the extent that he along with others chose to write letters on behalf of Mr. Murphy, then his actions have to be evaluated, his perspective has to be evaluated, as with the perspective of anybody who has involved themselves in the proceedings by writing a letter.

Mr. Halperin mentions the Uniform Code of Military Justice (Editor’s note: Guess you’ll have to get your hands on a copy of the transcript, since we relied on Illogic’s abridged version of Halperin’s comments). I note from reading the pre-sentencing report that Mr. Murphy has a military history. An armed force, any armed force, without discipline is a mob. That applies to any military unit anywhere in the world. It also applies to any paramilitary unit, and that would include the police department.

This incident involved a serious transgression. Now, whether Chief Ryan should have in the interest of maintaining discipline imposed a more serious sanction is for somebody else to decide, but discipline is absolutely necessary. The old saying, to those whom great power is given, great responsibility attaches. Once you’re authorized to use force, including lethal force, you are subject to a great responsibility.

The plea agreement- let me just review, since so many people are here, let me review how we got where we are. As I noted earlier, under the guidelines, the range of – advisory guidelines, the range of possible sentences would be 87 months to 108 months. Because this was charged as a misdemeanor, which is a little—strikes me as being generous to Mr. Murphy because the distinction between a misdemeanor and a felony under the law turns on whether or not the use--- let try not to do this from memory. It say: “If bodily injury results from acts committed in violation of this section, or if such acts involve the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than ten years.”
So the distinction between misdemeanor treatment in which punishment is up to 12 months and felony treatment as to which punishment would be ten years, turns on whether or not there was a use, attempted use orr threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives or fire.

Now, under the guidelines, the calculations set out in the pre-sentence report, I’m looking at page 3, paragraph 82, that if a dangerous weapon were otherwise used, increase the guideline level by four levels. The defendant sprayed Mr. Hooks in the face with pepper spray and struck Mr. Hooks with an expandable baton on multiple occasions.

Now, it is certainly within the discretion of the United States Attorney’s office, complete discretion to make the charging decision, but it seems to me in this case that there was a generous charging decision made in Mr. Murphy’s favor. And that having received the benefit of that decision, that all of the mitigating circumstances have already been taken into account here.

OK. I’ll use Ilogic’s patented Abridged Sentencing Hearing approach here, not, as in Illogic’s case, to safe the need to think, but to spare myself additional typing, since the FPF website doesn’t upload pdfs or jpgs or Adobe Photoshop or Word Doc.
The judge goes on to say, “Murphy not likely to commit same crime again, but deterrence needed, committed serious crime, I’m not inclined to sentence to prison for less than 12 months.”

And after several pages of legal technicalities, he ordered Murphy to report to prison on Sept. 8.

Back to my personal comments: Just to be as complete as possible—who knows what else past and present overseers of the Forest Park police department have swept tinder the carpet-- beside Sidney Hooks in Aug., 2003 and Robert Wilson in May, 2002, there was William Battle in 1993.

In addition, to quote from the Forest Park Review, “One case, settled in 2004, named Murphy as a defendant. Forest Park paid $2,500 to settle another case in 2002. The name of the officers accused in that case were listed by the plaintiff as "unknown."A settlement reached in 1995 following a jury trial, but prior to a verdict being delivered, saw $5,500 paid to the plaintiff, according to village records. Murphy was one of three officers named in the case.Information on a settlement reached in 1994 in which Murphy was also named as a defendant is exempt from public scrutiny, according to the village.”

That’s apparently Forest Parks idea of an exemplary policeman. Clearly, objective outside observers strongly disagree. The only question now is if they’re still observing, and how strongly they’ll continue to disagree.

Here’s a safe bet. If any future indictments are brought, the feds won’t be in the mood to drop felony charges to misdemeanors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31/July/2008 at 10:26am
Taking notes, Mr D, other than the upload problem and legal technicality omissions, there appears to be some bias in reporting.  Why a condensed version of Halperin/Murphy speak? Maybe some of us would like to read their words in totality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31/July/2008 at 10:29am
Tell me where I can drop a copy off and you can read to your heart's content, Illogic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31/July/2008 at 10:56am
Don't want the whole transcript, Mr D, won't read it, save yourself the trouble. Just the page/s on "THE JUDGE THEN INVITES HALPERIN TO SPEAK." and "Murphy then told the judge" will suffice. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31/July/2008 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by Mr. D Mr. D wrote:

You're intellect is seriously abridged, Illogic.

Isis, I give in. I'll take that a Midol. Illogic is making me cramp up.





A hot water bottle also works well. A few glasses of wine might be a nice substitute for the Midol.
All right everyone, line up alphabetically according to your height.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/September/2008 at 12:53pm

Story around Village Hall is the the Village Council has approved a settlement for the Harder lawsuit.   No details though. Any one else hear something?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/September/2008 at 2:52pm
Does it include a place setting in roll call?

Edited by logic - 16/September/2008 at 2:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote videoguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/September/2008 at 5:28pm
No, but I am sure it doesnt include Calderone and Ryan paying for it out of their own pockets. So the next time you want to know why there are not enough cops on the street, why civic improvements are slow or nonexistent, or why the rundown building/cop substation is not finalized, you can look to this kind of crap and see where your tax money goes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/September/2008 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by Mr. C Mr. C wrote:

Story around Village Hall is the the Village Council has approved a settlement for the Harder lawsuit.   No details though. Any one else hear something?



I believe actual VC approval would have to take place at a public meeting, and so far that has not happened.

There may be a working agreement between "the parties" negotiating, but that would still have to go before the VC for a vote.
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