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Madison St. Vacancies 9/12/08

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    Posted: 12/September/2008 at 9:03am
Here is the latest tally of Madison St. Vacancies. The last survey was February 25, 2008. A comparison will show some places have filled and others have become vacant however the last survey had 21 vacant, this time 23.

7201 Madison - Former Shell Station

7212 Madison - Former Carpenters Union?

7221 Madison - Former Century 21 Realty?

7226 Madison - Hole next to Horan’s.

7228 Madison - Lot next to hole.

7232 Madison - Storefront for lease.

7314 Madison – Former Brown Cow

7324 Madison – Former Team Blond.

7328 Madison – Former Reich & Becker.

7404 Madison – Former Saver Mart.

7415 A Madison – Storefront (Big Fin).

7437 Madison – Office space.

7439 Madison – Storefront (Big Fin).

7442 Madison – Storefront.

7453 Madison – Storefront.

7500 Madison – Storefront (Big Fin).

7502 Madison – Storefront (Big Fin).

7507 Madison – Polo Lofts storefront.

7511 Madison – Polo Lofts storefront.

755? Madison - Former Lee’s Mobile Station.

7600 Madison - Former Roco’s, Madison St. Grill, etc.

7616 Madison – Former Ambee’s Engraving.

7628 Madison – Storefront.

Edited by backman - 15/September/2008 at 1:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/September/2008 at 9:18am

Any ideas why so many?  Rents too high?  Economy too soft?  Village rules not enforced the same for all?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vorots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/September/2008 at 9:30am
Well I know that Ambee's had their rent doubled when their lease came up and were told that a sushi place was ready to move in if they did not pay up. Now there is no Ambee's and still no sushi place. I would guess that in a soft economy and with the credit crunch it is tougher for people to give up nice paying jobs and get a bank to loan them money for a retail store in a soft economy. I think that most places you drive through you will see several vacancies. I don't view this as a bad thing for Forest Park in that it is not different than what other communities are facing.   
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When things are going boom, Lil' MAC gets the credit.

Who gets the blame when things go bust?
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George Bush and this crappy economy.
FOCUS !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/September/2008 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by dogcatcher dogcatcher wrote:

George Bush and this crappy economy.
 
And you want McBush/Palin in office??? I don't quite understand you DC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/September/2008 at 12:35pm
This is semi-well-trod ground on FoPa forums.

Way back when the street was going to be resurfaced/rebuilt. Tony's council majority decided to transform it. The construction phase meant lean times for some of the long time occupants. When the street was finally completed, they started to regain their clientele, then the rents started going up.

The business mix that moved onto Madison St. was trendy. It moved/pushed out more stable, but less aesthetic businesses like Mobil, Shell and small service oriented concerns without a second thought or a PLAN. The retail/condo model was going to revitalize the district. It was boomtown, remember? Such a grand success that they needed to tear down homes to provide more parking.

A large part of why the economy went into the crapper stemmed from OVER- development or simply unwise developments that were aided and abetted by local politicians like MATC who failed to PLAN properly.

They took the credit. They take the blame.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/September/2008 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:

A large part of why the economy went into the crapper stemmed from OVER- development or simply unwise developments that were aided and abetted by local politicians like MATC who failed to PLAN properly.

They took the credit. They take the blame.
 
This is another leg of the "does forest park think things through"......or do we take developers word for how the world is going and go with their plans (without the much needed reality check on who actually lives, works, or shops in our village and what we want/need).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vorots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/September/2008 at 12:54pm
Sorry, can you please fill me in on how the developments have led to the downfall of our economy? Not quite making the connection. Are you saying that if the Ark and Brown's chicken were still on Madison street that we would not be seeing the level's of unoccupied storefronts that we are seeing now? Would the lake of the development where the cigar place is going in have meant that Saver Groceries or the TV/VCR repair place would still be there? Please fill me in on the connection, I fail to see it.
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Originally posted by vorots vorots wrote:

Sorry, can you please fill me in on how the developments have led to the downfall of our economy? Not quite making the connection. Are you saying that if the Ark and Brown's chicken were still on Madison street that we would not be seeing the level's of unoccupied storefronts that we are seeing now? Would the lake of the development where the cigar place is going in have meant that Saver Groceries or the TV/VCR repair place would still be there? Please fill me in on the connection, I fail to see it.


In a manner of speaking, yes. When the redevelopment started, the goal was to provide an update rather than an extreme makeover. The time frame and scope expanded considerably as did the expenses. "If you build it they will come" seemed to be the working belief system, but there was no overall plan to fill the refined space. In fits and starts small businesses have opened and closed. Not surprising since half of all small retail start-ups don't make it.

The street's reputation as a destination was NOT for retail shopping. It also wasn't for a village run animal shelter or even for baked goods.

It would have been a smarter long-term approach to have a solid plan rather than the piece-meal way. Again, the winners are those who cashed out. Those who paid hot market prices for space on the strip had to increase rents to cover. That reduced the number of potential occupants and their chances for success. What they couldn't make in volume had to be made up in higher prices.





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How would such a plan be enforced? The government can not tell a private landlord who to rent to and who not to rent to. They can exclude certain types of businesses, but only in the broadest sense. They cannot say that this space is only available for X business. What has been built recently has been filled. All new developments have 100% business occupancy not the OHOP is moving here and the cigar store is in the process. I don't count the polo lofts since that was not a tear down and rebuild. So yes then did come when they were built. If anything it is an argument from an economic standpoint that we should have done more of that to boost the street. So once again, how is this anybody's fault that there are storefronts that are vacant? Blame the individual landlords if anything, blame the residents of Forest Park for not shopping local when they can, blame people who go to one of the boutiques to try something on or take a closer look at something and then go home and buy it online from some large corporation that pays minimum wages to their employees. There are lots of places to lay the blame, but still it all comes down to a slow if not recessing economy. When the economy turns around, people are more likly to take the chance and open their own place. Until then, most of us are just happy to have the job we got.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/September/2008 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by vorots vorots wrote:

Blame the individual landlords if anything, blame the residents of Forest Park for not shopping local when they can, blame people who go to one of the boutiques to try something on or take a closer look at something and then go home and buy it online from some large corporation that pays minimum wages to their employees.
 
I'd be curious where you got this information....pays minimum wages to their employees???  Are you implying that the FP retailers are paying high wages?  What can you buy at a boutique that would available on line?  I'd be curious where you got this info.
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Most FP retailers are the owners, therefore they make whatever they sell. You can buy lots at a boutique that is available online. Wines from House Red, jeans from Afkara, shoes from Heals, clothes from Treehouse. Are you under the impression that all of these people make their wares by hand in the basement? Large corportations also like to set up shops in places with lower minimum wages, i.e. off shore. Is this a surprise as well? If you would like we can start a different discussions on the many reasons why items from China other such countries are cheaper.
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I have to agree w/ Vorots - I have bought many items online that I originally saw at Heels, Team Blonde, Girlicious etc., all you have to do is google the vendor/distributor etc., and go direct to the originator - majority of the items I've gotten much cheaper even when paying shipping costs.
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Originally posted by vorots vorots wrote:

Most FP retailers are the owners, therefore they make whatever they sell. You can buy lots at a boutique that is available online. Wines from House Red, jeans from Afkara, shoes from Heals, clothes from Treehouse.   WELL THEN THEIR ITEMS ARE NOT THAT BOUTIQUEY IF YOU CAN GET THEM ALL ONLINE.   DO THE SHOES FROM HEALS, HEAL?
 
Are you under the impression that all of these people make their wares by hand in the basement?   OF COURSE NOT
 
Large corportations also like to set up shops in places with lower minimum wages, i.e. off shore. Is this a surprise as well?   WHERE ARE THE BOUTIQUE ITEMS MANUFACTURED?  ARE YOU TELLING ME THEIR ITEMS COME FROM THE U.S.?
 
My thoughts in red caps.
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Originally posted by buster buster wrote:

I have to agree w/ Vorots - I have bought many items online that I originally saw at Heels, Team Blonde, Girlicious etc., all you have to do is google the vendor/distributor etc., and go direct to the originator - majority of the items I've gotten much cheaper even when paying shipping costs.
 
That's a real problem then for the retailers then.  Sorry to hear that the shops have to jack up the prices so much as to not be competitive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vorots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/September/2008 at 3:56pm
Depends on the store as to where they are manufactured. I know that at Team Blonde they do a lot of local artist, create their own jewelry or have recycled types of items. Flavor is another store that is a strong supportor of locavores. Some get stuff from overseas some don't. It would be up to each owner to decide what is important to them. However, even the ones that do get it from overseas still pay much high prices than the big box stores since they don't get the volume discounts. Oh and I never said that you can get them all online, but what stops somebody from setting up a website that looks boutiquey but really isn't?
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Originally posted by vorots vorots wrote:

but what stops somebody from setting up a website that looks boutiquey but really isn't?
 
Nothing, but online to me doesn't mean boutique. 
 
Retail is a rough world, especially today.
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What if the boutique has a webpage and you can purchase online? Does that me that they are no longer a boutique?
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Its all because of the economy. There are tons of empty lots, half finished housing projects, and empty storefronts in Chicago, Oak Park, etc.

CREDIT CRUNCH = Banks lost billions due to lax lending practices, i.e., they created the problem out of greed. THEN they now say no loans unless you are perfect and your plan is perfect. No loans, no money for starting businesses. And the Republicans say they know how to run a business!!!! WHAT A FREAKING HUGE JOKE!!
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Originally posted by vorots vorots wrote:

What if the boutique has a webpage and you can purchase online? Does that me that they are no longer a boutique?
To me, they have just become an online retailer.  Everyone looks at things different.  This is just my lowly opinion.  I wish no harding worker retail shop owner bad luck.  It's a rough business. 
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See I would consider somebody to be an online retailer if they did not have a brick and mortar storefront. Just a warehouse somewhere. I guess that it is a matter of semantics on that point. But the main thing that I am trying to get across is that Forest Park is fairing no worse than any other area. If you can't get the loan, you can't build, finish your project, open, etc.
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Originally posted by Mr. D Mr. D wrote:

When things are going boom, Lil' MAC gets the credit.

Who gets the blame when things go bust?


Keep It Going!!!
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Originally posted by vorots vorots wrote:

But the main thing that I am trying to get across is that Forest Park is fairing no worse than any other area. If you can't get the loan, you can't build, finish your project, open, etc.


But pray tell, how does that explain the establishments who packed up and left or sold out?
What effect might the increase in liquor fees have had? Have the cosmetic improvements really increased business? Those businesses are moving somewhere. But where?
Sounds to me like opening a business in Forest Park is kinda risky.

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OK. I'll bite. What business has moved from Forest Park's Madison St. to go to somewhere else? Painted Board is the only one that comes to mind for me and she chose to move her business to her own hometown. Cash flow is a huge issue for businesses. For those that are not socking away money hand over fist, and I would be willing to bet that is most of the ones on Madison St., lines of credit or collateral loans can keep the bills getting paid in the slow seasons. So yes, that can explain why some have closed. Others have closed for retirement (Reich and Becker) or did his decision to retire fall upon the failures of the government? Increased liquor fees? Once again who here that has a liquor license has since left once the higher fees were put into place? You have a lot of sounds like and assumptions, please let me know what exactly you are talking about, name names for the business if you must, but I have no idea who you could possibly be talking about. At least I hope your whole argument isn't based upon The Painted Board.
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Been to River Forest lately?  The strip mall at Lake Street and Bonnie Brae is doing under fast.  Linens & Things has a big banner proclaiming that they are closing.  The Talbots is closed, the toy place (Red Wagon?) is closed. 
 
This economy is killing everyone.  If you persist in electing McSame and giving Bush a 3rd term don't expect it to get any better.
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Wow, linens'n things is closing too?  Let's hope our Bed, Bath and Beyond fares better and remains open.  Start using those 20% off coupons they mail to us every other week.
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Admin now hates this town and will say anything to knock it. As a property owner, however, this is like shooting yourself in the foot. But my shrink told me to stop expecting irrational people to act rationally. I try, I really do, but when surrounded by such stupidity. . . .
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Aren't you yourself considering moving out of town, or did you change your mind?
I never said anywhere that I hate this town. There are just some elements in it that are sleazy and corrupt.
Yep, I have a bug up my butt over some recent events but what makes my reaction to it irrational? If it happened to you or a family member of yours, you'd be foaming at the mouth and you and everyone here knows it. So I don't know if that makes you a hypocrite or if you're just some whacked out Viet Nam vet with anger management problems.

P.S....
Scratch that last comment. You said something about your Shrink, so I guess we know what the answer is.




Edited by administrator - 13/September/2008 at 10:06pm
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Originally posted by vorots vorots wrote:

OK. I'll bite. What business has moved from Forest Park's Madison St. to go to somewhere else?


Ok, you got me on that one. Mark one in the Win column for vorots.
But that's an awful long list of failed businesses or empty storefronts for whatever the reason is.
Those who can make you believe absurdities have the power to make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire~
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