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Elementary School Restructuring

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logic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/September/2008 at 11:53am
Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:

The fears will be validated, not because the district changed to attendance centers, but because the schools lost a critical element needed for success.
What, in your mind, is the critical element for success?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/September/2008 at 12:07pm
The students whose parents care enough, are involved enough and value education enough to seek out the best possible environment for them.

If they don't believe that attendance centers provide that environment, I don't think they'll grin and bear it or even give it a fair shot.

Edited by watcher - 22/September/2008 at 12:08pm
"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/September/2008 at 9:41am
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong on this, but in FoPa schools if you have an IEP, you go to Field Stevenson. IOW, the Garfield and Betsy students who have issues are turned into Field students.

Ostensibly this allows special services to be consolidated and focused, but it has an effect on test scores too.

As much as I'd like to explore the learning environment of 50s, 60s Catholic schools, it doesn't apply to today's learning centers be they neighborhood schools or grade attendance centers.





"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujube50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/September/2008 at 8:13pm
"if you have an IEP, you go to Field Stevenson. IOW, the Garfield and Betsy students who have issues are turned into Field students"
 
No, definitely not true. Garfield has IEPS, I assume Grant-White & Betsy do too.
 
I moved from the Grant-White area to Garfield when my child was school age.  I paid and still pay higher taxes to live here and I don't like that Grant-White kids were brought in because their school had more kids. The teachers are outstanding at GARfield and also at the Middle School. And yes, parent have requested their kids go to Garfield although they are not in Garfield's boundaries...
 
I question the racial breakdown for Garfield because my son was often the only white kid and sometimes 1 of 2 white kids in his "homeroom" every year. When he went to the Middle School, I felt the prinicipal welcomed us heartily to orientation night since we are/were the minority there.
Gall town smarm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2008 at 7:23am
Who can honestly say they don't know someone who has already moved their child(ren) out of FP schools because their perception is that they aren't good enough anymore? How many FP kids are attending St. Lukes, St. Edmunds, Ascension? How many more would there be if the restructuring goes through?

Houses in FoPa are taxed for Dist 91 schools at the same rate. There isn't a premium attached to certain schools.

"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itsme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2008 at 9:44am
No, there is not a premium attached to certain schools, but higher assessed homes have higher taxes, and there are areas of FP, north and south, where the homes cost more because of the schools.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2008 at 2:53pm
It's a percentage of the property taxes. If your home is not worth as much as the one across the street, obviously they are not going to pay the same amount.
All right everyone, line up alphabetically according to your height.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2008 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by itsme itsme wrote:

No, there is not a premium attached to certain schools, but higher assessed homes have higher taxes, and there are areas of FP, north and south, where the homes cost more because of the schools.


The homes cost more because of the HOMES, proximity to Madison and transportation. Any premium attached for a specific school boundary is artificial.
There's been a cache attached to the 4-600 blocks since FoPa's early days because the houses are typically larger there. This existed long before any exceptionalism was claimed for a specific school.

The test score argument is a few decades old. What has affected scores at certain schools at certain times has become more pronounced by abandonment than anything that occurs within the school walls.

There was a significant kerfluffle over changing from K-8 buildings to a Junior High and again when the Middle School structure was built. The Grade Center approach involving only 4 schools, if supported, could bring uniform high standards to each building in the district. Or if not supported, just continue to erode.
"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/September/2008 at 8:54am
Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:

Who can honestly say they don't know someone who has already moved their child(ren) out of FP schools because their perception is that they aren't good enough anymore?
Restructuring the schools in and of itself may not be a bad idea, don't know. As long as the perception exists that some FP schools do not provide a safe environment in which children can learn/grow or deal with the chronic behavior problems they will continue to lose students.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/September/2008 at 12:46pm
The link is http://www.freewebs.com/fpschools/index.htm
 
Here is a link to a site that some parent(s) have created to spread the word on the proposed restructuring. Check out the survey - sort of one-sided  - I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and attend the meetings that are scheduled to hear out the board.  BUT, on the other hand, it is a starting point for parents to get involved especially of the School board is resistant to listening to the families.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itsme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/September/2008 at 1:00pm
Parents heard that the questions had to be in writing, so they don't think they'll have their voices heard.  So, it looks like the website/survey is a way to do that.  I love how the school community is coming together.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/September/2008 at 1:12pm
Hopefully the group will elect/select 1 parent to represent each of the elementary schools/or send a representative to each of the meetings to present their questions, concerns in a calm and organized manner.  My only concern would be that if this group is a Garfield group and would be resistant only because their child(ren) would have to attend Grant White or Field. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/September/2008 at 2:03pm
Went to the survey.  Doesn't sound like they want input from anyone other than those with kids in the schools.  Nice, as I pay into those schools, my voice should be heard as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itsme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/September/2008 at 2:43pm
I checked it out as well.  There is a comment section at the end.  Feel free, Pie, to voice your opinion.  There is a question that asks if you have children in the schools, and you can choose no. 
Buster, Garfield and Grant would combine and Betsy and Field would combine.  I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to go to GW or Field.  It's a matter of people like their schools the way they are.  If enrollment is the only problem, there are other ways to maybe fix it. 
You may be surprised to hear this, but there are some FS and GW parents that do not want the proposal to pass either.  They want their neighborhood school left alone too.  From what i hear, there are teachers who aren't happy either, but they were "advised" not to speak about it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/September/2008 at 4:04pm
What a shame if the teachers are being told not to speak up and voice their opinion.  Very disappointed to hear.  My feeling:  there is and always will be two sides to every story.  There will be some that are for the change and some against all for various reasons.  If it was my family that was being affected, I would most definitely take a stand.  I am attending a meeting - regardless if you have child(ren) in the elementary schools or not, it's also a community as a whole that will be affected.  Everyone needs to come out and hear the proposal. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itsme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/September/2008 at 6:40pm
Buster, as far as the survey looking "one-sided" as you put it, I agree that the questions seem to lean in one direction.  However, the answers go in both directions, for and against, so really it's not a biased survey.  If people are for it, they can answer accordingly.  If you don't have kids, just skip those questions. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mochalatte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/October/2008 at 10:14am

I spoke to my principal at Garfield, and she was horribly misquoted in the paper.  Imagine that, Josh Adams misquoted someone.  I'd call and give him an earful, but he'll probably print it as a love note. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dogcatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/October/2008 at 10:24am

Yes he does see fit to change stuff around in a big way do not even bother.

FOCUS !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mochalatte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/October/2008 at 2:25pm

I thought I did answer it.  I said I don't want my kids split up, not one at Garfield and one somewhere else, not Grant White, not Betsy or Field.  I want my kids to be together.  I want to stay involved 100%, not 50% here and 50% there.  If the plan truly is to only bus the younger kids, how are all these older kids supposed to get home?  Are our 8yr olds really supposed to walk a mile across three busy streets alone if their parents cannot pick them up?  Are Betsy Ross's kids supposed to cross Roosevelt?  I don't care if there are crossing guards.  These are still 8 yr old children.  What about their safety walking until they get to the crossing guards? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/October/2008 at 2:32pm

If you had to choose between all of your children attending Grant White or splitting them up what would you choose? 

Whomever is distributing the flyers/survey, I certainly hope they have their representatives attend all of the meetings to bring each and every issue up for discussion.  I don't disagree with you Mocha on your points of the kids walking home, being bussed, involvment time gets decreased etc.,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vorots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/October/2008 at 3:39pm
I guess that I am confused about the splitting the kids up between school argument. What happens after the 5th grade. Don't they get split up then? Do you allow your 6th grader to walk from the far north side or far south side to Middle School by themself and drive or walk a younger sibling to the community school? Why is that not a problem, but it is an issue for splitting up the schools between 2nd and 3rd grade?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/October/2008 at 8:07am
Did anyone attend the meeting last night at Betsy Ross?  If so, can you summarize what happened?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/October/2008 at 9:59am
Originally posted by Shoes Shoes wrote:

I am speaking for alot of the Garfield famlies and we need to make something perfectly straight! This issue has nothing to do with black or white! This is a well mixed community and if any of you feel you do not want your children going to school with white students or black students then you need to move out of Forest Park! 

 
So what is the issue?  Why are so many Garfield parents against this?  Their children will still be going to school with the same kids with a new group added.  The teachers will pretty much be the same.  So the only change is the building.  Why is that such an issue?
 
It also doesn't make sense to move your child out of Forest Park or into a private school if the only real changes are a new building for 3 years and additional students in the same building.
 
At least that's the way it looks to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pokerdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/October/2008 at 10:32am
Itsme. I'm sorry!

It was Buster: Garfield is in high demand for families not in the Garfield district. I have personal knowledge of 2 families in the F.S. district that when registering their child(ren) at kindergarten level specifically asked if they could attend Garfield. Both families have their children attending Garfield which is now considered their home school. When questioned, one parent told me that they requested the home school change to Garfield verbally as well as in writing during registration at Field (which should be their home school). They were told that if there was availability, that it would not be an issue, except for transportation to/from - but for a fee (don't know the amount) they could take the bus from home school (Field) to Garfield. How many more families have requested a change to their home school and it has been granted?

Q: How many more families have requested a change to their home school and it has been granted?
A: LOTS!

I didnt have to twist anything. The writing is on the wall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pokerdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/October/2008 at 10:35am
And you people are NUTS if you think this change will be implemented. I think Administrator said this on another thread: nothing changes in this town.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mochalatte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/October/2008 at 10:48am
Poker, Martini, why so angry?  I have lived here all my life and grew up in the Garfield neighborhood.  Never once have I ever thought I was better than anyone else or that Garfield students deserved a better education.  and I have never, ever heard the term "Garfield Heights."  The only people saying these things are parents like you from other schools who for some reason would rather post those things than actually get to know us.  It's easy to come on here anonymously and say it, but how about speaking to our parents?  For some reason there are people who want to make this a Garfield fight and make us look like the bad guys, when the real issue is whether this is the best move for our children.  i don't think it is, and many people from all over share my opinion.  
You're calling a school that's 65% African American/Hispanic a racist school?  Do you even know how ridiculous that sounds? 
Speak to the families that have kids there from other schools and see if they feel welcomed.  All kids deserve an education.  Personally my opposal to the plan has nothing to do with the kids at GW.  it has to do with me keeping my boys together, convenience of living a few blocks from where they go to school and being able to make sure they get in the door safely. Another very important reason is to keep our PTA going.  It would be very difficult to have 1 pta that now would have to represent twice the students.  It's very hard to get volunteers because people just don't have the time.  and over the years, we've been raising less and less money.  Trying to do twice as much and spend twice as much with fewer volunteers and less $$ is near impossible. 
 
And martini, You may think we are exclusive, but we don't think that way, sorry.  How is it our fault because people want to transfer to our school? 
Everyone is entitled to their opinions and make their arguments for what they think is best for their kids.  But you don't see any Garfield parents on here bashing those who are for the proposal, do you?  That says a lot.


Edited by mochalatte - 02/October/2008 at 10:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/October/2008 at 10:52am
You're raising money right now for 6 grades, correct?  If this goes through you will still be raising money for 6 grades just 5 blocks from each other.  Why is that a big deal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mochalatte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/October/2008 at 10:56am
There are approx. 100 students, I think, at Grant White.  We would have to spread the $$ we take in 100 more ways.  We pay for field trips.  We give so much money per student to our room parents.  we pay for assemblies.  We give $ to every teacher to buy things for their classrooms.  There will be 100 more students to send on field trips, which means less per student.  There will be twice the # of classrooms to give $ to for items, etc.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pokerdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/October/2008 at 10:57am
Actually, I dont see too many people on here that are for the proposal so I guess I dont see how you could bash them.

I see your points now. You want your kids in the same school, close to your house and your worried about your PTA. Got it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pokerdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/October/2008 at 10:58am
And theres just so much money and you want to keep it for your kids in your school.
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