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Mr. D View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27/September/2009 at 1:57pm
William Safire Dead at 79

"William Safire, a speechwriter for President Richard M. Nixon and a Pulitzer Prize-winning political columnist for The New York Times who also wrote books on politics and a treasury of articles on language, has died at age 79..." the NY Times reports.


Another eminently credentialed and expansively articulate conservative (again, agree or disagree with him, but do your homework) fades from the scene. At this rate, neo-con thinking is going to be scrawled in monosylables in crayon.

Thank God for them they still have Rep. Joe Wilson and the Sarahcudah.



"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives."

-James Madison
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2009 at 4:30pm
nattering nabobs of negativity. more stylish than sinister rumors :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2009 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

nattering nabobs of negativity. more stylish than sinister rumors :)


Certainly more alliterative and imaginative. And look what it did for all the nabobs of the world.
"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives."

-James Madison
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2009 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by Mr. D Mr. D wrote:

Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

nattering nabobs of negativity. more stylish than sinister rumors :)


Certainly more alliterative and imaginative. And look what it did for all the nabobs of the world.


Still all show; no go.

Didn't Saffire also pen the classic "I am not a crook" line?

His finest moment: "Is sloppiness in speech caused by ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care."


I always wanted to ask him how the whole "Law and Order" thing worked out when he compared words to reality.

Now it's too late.



"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2009 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:

Originally posted by Mr. D Mr. D wrote:

Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

nattering nabobs of negativity. more stylish than sinister rumors :)


Certainly more alliterative and imaginative. And look what it did for all the nabobs of the world.

His finest moment: "Is sloppiness in speech caused by ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care."
now that's funny. intentional, or not?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2009 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:

Originally posted by Mr. D Mr. D wrote:

Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

nattering nabobs of negativity. more stylish than sinister rumors :)
Certainly more alliterative and imaginative. And look what it did for all the nabobs of the world.
His finest moment: "Is sloppiness in speech caused by ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care."

now that's funny. intentional, or not?


Absolutely intentional. Safire's "use" of the language was unequaled in his time.

His limits were intellectual and/or philosophical. He was smarter than the people for whom he crafted words, both as a PR/Ad man and political hack. Nixon screwed him over, he retaliated with brute force of words and won a pulitzer. His proudest moment.

The last decade had been less kind.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tree Frog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2009 at 8:10pm

According to Winston Churchill, “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”

 

While it is true that most Americans have views that are generally considered conservative, it is also true they barely pay attention.  Americans have forgotten what the cost of freedom has been and are too easily enticed by those who are willing to spend taxpayer dollars to buy democratic votes we can’t afford.

But a funny thing has happened.  Forums such as this one have sprung up where truths can be told.  Nitwits from the local mayor to major national leaders can be exposed for the incompetents that they are. 

Blame it on FOX news or ForestParkForums if you would like, but normal people have finally awoken to the mistake that occurred last November and will soon elect responsible leaders who will protect us from those haters who society has rightfully left behind. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2009 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by Tree Frog Tree Frog wrote:

According to Winston Churchill, “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”

 

While it is true that most Americans have views that are generally considered conservative, it is also true they barely pay attention.  Americans have forgotten what the cost of freedom has been and are too easily enticed by those who are willing to spend taxpayer dollars to buy democratic votes we can’t afford.

But a funny thing has happened.  Forums such as this one have sprung up where truths can be told.  Nitwits from the local mayor to major national leaders can be exposed for the incompetents that they are. 

Blame it on FOX news or ForestParkForums if you would like, but normal people have finally awoken to the mistake that occurred last November and will soon elect responsible leaders who will protect us from those haters who society has rightfully left behind. 

well, i love the word nitwit :) thanks for that.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2009 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by tree frog tree frog wrote:

According to Winston Churchill, “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”

While it is true that most Americans have views that are generally considered conservative, it is also true they barely pay attention. Americans have forgotten what the cost of freedom has been and are too easily enticed by those who are willing to spend taxpayer dollars to buy democratic votes we can’t afford.

But a funny thing has happened. Forums such as this one have sprung up where truths can be told. Nitwits from the local mayor to major national leaders can be exposed for the incompetents that they are.

Blame it on FOX news or ForestParkForums if you would like, but normal people have finally awoken to the mistake that occurred last November and will soon elect responsible leaders who will protect us from those haters who society has rightfully left behind.   


It wasn't Churchill. But quoting Guizot or Clemenceau (who lifted it) is just so bourgeoisie.
<snip>
"Charles Krauthammer [op-ed, May 25] quotes Winston Churchill as
saying, "If you're not a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If
you're not a conservative when you're 40, you have no head."

This quotation is frequently but mistakenly attributed to Churchill.
It is anyway unlikely that Churchill would subscribe to this
philosophy: He was a swashbuckling soldier at 20, and a Conservative
member of Parliament at 25. A couple of years later he switched to the
Liberal Party (which was not liberal in the modern sense), and later
went back to the Conservatives.

The phrase originated with Francois Guizot (1787-1874): "Not to be a
republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is
proof of want of head." "
<end snip>

I'd guess that the original quote wouldn't work as well eh? When he was nine Guizot's father was executed in the Reign of Terror. He came of age and rose to become French Prime Minister as an Orleanist.

Comparisons between 19th Century France and present times are misleading at best.

Brief highlights of Liberal Accomplishments:

1919—Women’s Suffrage Ratified [Wilson]
1920—Annette Adams, First Woman Appointed To An Administration Position
[Wilson]
1933—Federal Deposit Insurance [FDR]
1935—W.P.A. [FDR-put people to work during the depression]
1935—Social Security Act [FDR]
1938—Fair Labor Standards Act [FDR]
1944—G.I. Bill Of Rights [FDR]
1947—Military Desegregated [Truman]
1947—Marshall Plan [Truman-Rebuilt Europe after WW II]
1961—Peace Corps [John F. Kennedy]
1964—Civil Rights Act [Johnson]
1964—Medicare And Medicaid [Johnson]
1964—Fed Dept Of Housing And Urban Development [Johnson]
1965—Head Start Created [Johnson]
1968—Occupation Safety Act [Johnson]
1987—Clean Water Act [Dem Congress override of Reagan veto]
1990—Americans With Disabilities Act [Democratic Congress]
1993—Family Leave Act [Clinton]
1993—AmeriCorps [Clinton]
1996-- Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill [Clinton]
1997-- Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the
largest surplus [Clinton]
1999-- Longest economic expansion in American history & Lowest
unemployment in 30 years [Clinton]

There's nothing funny about what has happened. Normal people will continue to graze their little patch of turf until something major makes them look up. Otherwise they expect competent people to do competent things with the money they collect in taxes.



"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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fyi. a lot of folks are finding this a short, simple & clarifying piece re: the bank bailout.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2009 at 10:45pm
mentioned a few days ago, Balloon Juice is assembling a bloggy political dictionary/lexicon.
today they are struggling to define 'liberal' and 'conservative.'  witness the struggle, if interested.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2009 at 8:25am
Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

mentioned a few days ago, Balloon Juice is assembling a bloggy political dictionary/lexicon.
today they are struggling to define 'liberal' and 'conservative.'  witness the struggle, if interested.



Redifining liberal and conservative?

Why... that's almost like totally remaking America!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2009 at 8:37am
Originally posted by Mr. D Mr. D wrote:

Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

mentioned a few days ago, Balloon Juice is assembling a bloggy political dictionary/lexicon.
today they are struggling to define 'liberal' and 'conservative.'  witness the struggle, if interested.



Redefining liberal and conservative?

Why... that's almost like totally remaking America!


Relabeling? Rebranding?

When your product liabilities outweigh the name recognition, changing the definition/name is easier than fixing the problems.

The Reagan revolution successfully reframed and redefined. FUNDAMENTALLY changing everything. We are now out in Reagan's brave new frontier. The natural result of everything he wanted to see happen.

It was a wrong turn. Until that is accepted, there's no going back. 12 steps?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2009 at 8:42am
Not a general discussion anymore. Moved to soapbox
"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Number6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2009 at 9:24am
Just up in severely northern Mich this weekend, and noticed many bumper stickers and yelling about the evils of buying foreign (or out of state) on cars that displayed otherwise conservative viewpoints.  I find this so interesting, as its the same argument that anarchist types have used in recent history when bemoaning globalism - something conservatives have never wanted to curb.  I mean, you with your McCain Palin sticker, are telling moi to buy local when 10 years ago you would have called me a commie for even suggesting such a thing as inhibiting corporations right to do business elsewhere?  It's so very odd, this new populist wave. 
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mayor calderone recently told me he is a 'populist.' also said he has republican values.
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Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

mayor calderone recently told me he is a 'populist.' also said he has republican values.


But is a populist something you can call yourself?  The way I see it, populism is a nebulous set of beliefs that may or may not include the right to work and the right to a living wage.  This runs counter to the business oriented side of republicanism such as I understand it, which believes in squeezing the salaries at the bottom and harvesting all natural resources to feed those at the top, the excess trickling down in the form of cheaper goods but fewer jobs and a highly mortgaged house, underfunded public schools and investment in public works (philanthropy, conservation) at the discretion of those who can privately fund it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2009 at 11:04am
Originally posted by Number6 Number6 wrote:

But is a populist something you can call yourself?  The way I see it, populism is a nebulous set of beliefs that may or may not include the right to work and the right to a living wage.  This runs counter to the business oriented side of republicanism such as I understand it, which believes in squeezing the salaries at the bottom and harvesting all natural resources to feed those at the top, the excess trickling down in the form of cheaper goods but fewer jobs and a highly mortgaged house, underfunded public schools and investment in public works (philanthropy, conservation) at the discretion of those who can privately fund it. 


And then pricing them out of the "market", using the higher "quality" and their ability to pay as justification.

We've upped OUR standards, up yours!

MATC is an opportunist with several conflicting delusions of grandeur.





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like you, number6, i can't seem to get a grip on what populist means. are only the rightwing claiming to be populists at this point?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Number6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2009 at 11:12am
Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

like you, number6, i can't seem to get a grip on what populist means. are only the rightwing claiming to be populists at this point?


I think so, because of the potential negative connotations. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2009 at 11:45am
Originally posted by Number6 Number6 wrote:


Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

like you, number6, i can't seem to get a grip on what populist means. are only the rightwing claiming to be populists at this point?
I think so, because of the potential negative connotations. 


Populism is a discourse that claims to support "the people" versus "the elites". Populism may comprise an ideology urging social and political system changes and/or a rhetorical style deployed by members of political or social movements. ...

Historically, it's been an invective hurled at Democrats.

Some say it's pandering with no intention of actually following through.




Edited by watcher - 28/September/2009 at 11:46am
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so who are the elites in FP? besides SF homeowners :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Number6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2009 at 11:59am
Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

so who are the elites in FP? besides SF homeowners :)


It depends entirely on who is doing the defining. 
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