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"No Dogs Police Order"

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yooperann View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13/January/2010 at 1:04pm
I was pretty amazed this morning to take my dog out to the empty field that was maybe once going to be a new YMCA and find big signs all over it saying "No Dogs, Police Order."  Really?  The police get to decide whether I can walk my dog on vacant public land in Forest Park?  And who, exactly, makes this decision?  I can understand that dogs have to be leashed, or that owners have to pick up after them, but outlawing them seems a little extreme.  It's empty land, for pete's sake.  Not a cemetery, not a playground, not a garden.  What gives?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/January/2010 at 1:13pm
Its always been that way there.  I remember Robert Marani getting tickets for walking his dogs over there.
 
Just because its vacant doesn't mean it can be a dog walking area.  The village owns that property just like you own yours.  If you owned a vacant lot you would have the right to tell people to keep their dogs off it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/January/2010 at 1:20pm
Yooper, call the village and ask them about it.

But maybe a few bad dog owners spoiled it for everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14/January/2010 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by Martini Martini wrote:

Its always been that way there.  I remember Robert Marani getting tickets for walking his dogs over there.
 
Just because its vacant doesn't mean it can be a dog walking area.  The village owns that property just like you own yours.  If you owned a vacant lot you would have the right to tell people to keep their dogs off it.


But why don't the signs just say NO TRESPASSING? And why so many? What does "BY POLICE ORDER" mean? Sounds like the language of a police state, doesn't it? What's the  point of following Forest Park municipal code for dogs when your dog can be arrested anyway for just sniffing around Village property? Overkill, isn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14/January/2010 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by rosie rosie wrote:

Originally posted by Martini Martini wrote:

Its always been that way there.  I remember Robert Marani getting tickets for walking his dogs over there.
 
Just because its vacant doesn't mean it can be a dog walking area.  The village owns that property just like you own yours.  If you owned a vacant lot you would have the right to tell people to keep their dogs off it.


But why don't the signs just say NO TRESPASSING? And why so many? What does "BY POLICE ORDER" mean? Sounds like the language of a police state, doesn't it? What's the  point of following Forest Park municipal code for dogs when your dog can be arrested anyway for just sniffing around Village property? Overkill, isn't it?
 
Since I'm not the one who posted the signs I really don't know why.  Maybe you should contact the Village and ask them why they don't want people walking their dogs there.  All I know is that every since they bought that property they have ticketed people who walk their dogs there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dogcatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14/January/2010 at 8:54pm
Its not a dog park..
FOCUS !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/January/2010 at 9:08am
Originally posted by dogcatcher dogcatcher wrote:

Its not a dog park..


Should there be more to this comment? I know it is not a dog park. No one ever said it was. A dog can be off leash at the dog park. I have never let my dogs off leash on that property. I have dog park permits and take my dog to the dog park to exercise.

Isn't there enough criminal activity in Forest Park without making legal dogs and their owners criminals too? You are complaining about drug dealers selling to middle school children without police action, we've got contractors and business owners skirting zoning and building codes, cars being broken into, stolen and vandalized, fights at the high school,  etc., etc., etc.  but don't mind that police resources will be used to police a vacant green property. What does this say about your and the Village of Forest Park's wisdom and priorities?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dogcatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/January/2010 at 9:26am
The Fire Dept and Police Dept use that area for training purposes..my guess they do not want to have to train in dog s**t.
FOCUS !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/January/2010 at 9:44am
Originally posted by dogcatcher dogcatcher wrote:

The Fire Dept and Police Dept use that area for training purposes..my guess they do not want to have to train in dog s**t.


Right, your guess follows the logic of my statement about village priorities. It is much more important for the Village to protect citizens from the "possibility" of stepping into dog poop than protecting middle school students from the dangers of the drug dealers that according to you exist and deal drugs out in the open without any police intervention.
(BtW, the dog s**t back where they train might actually be coyote poop.)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/January/2010 at 9:47am
What's ashame is all that green space that has been used once by the village (for the centennial party) has pretty much been unused all this time. Why aren't the summer fests held there?
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citizen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/January/2010 at 10:19am
actually, these are great questions.
what is the present/future use for this tax payer funded green space, which has been sitting unused for years now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/January/2010 at 11:27am
When they had the centennial celebration there, I asked why we never used it before? Seems like a no-brainer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/January/2010 at 11:34am
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

I asked why we never used it before?
and what did they reply? LOL
maybe gallaas didn't like dogs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/January/2010 at 2:17pm
I think before they "cleared" it for the Centennial, it was a wild prairie type atmosphere. Never got a real answer but then again there was a fest going on.
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Police and Fire training is a priority walking dogs there is not.
FOCUS !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/January/2010 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by dogcatcher dogcatcher wrote:

Police and Fire training is a priority walking dogs there is not.
who are you, Deputy Dog? LOL or is that Deputy Dawg?

Edited by citizen - 15/January/2010 at 5:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/January/2010 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by dogcatcher dogcatcher wrote:

Police and Fire training is a priority walking dogs there is not.

Aren't we, the taxpayers, a priority DC? The people of FP, not just the police and fire department, should be able to use this huge plot of land that WE are paying for! It seems a sin to just let it sit there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yooperann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/January/2010 at 10:39pm
An email sent by our distinguished village administrator.  There are so many holes in it I don't know where to start.

The village of forest park has identified an official "dog park" located at the corner of Circle and Lehmer which is regulated. There are a myriad of reasons for the need for regulation, not the least of which is liability issues as well as our concern for the health and welfare of the pets and their owners. The vacant land across from your residence is not governed for this use nor is it controlled with the protections granted to those who use our dog park. With the exception of the Dog Park, none of our parks (including Altenheim) allow for pets. This also holds true at the Park District of Forest Park (a separate governing body).
Although it may seem tempting to use this unimproved green space for walking or running your pet, we, the village, need to protect ourselves as well as those who may be inclined to use this site. Prohibiting this use protects us from liability issues from potential injuries such as tripping and falling as well as injuries sustained to a pet from an attack from another pet or worse, a diseased dog who may infect another. At our dog park, we are able to ensure that all shots are up-to-date and temperament issues are dealt with once brought to our attention. There are volunteers who police the dog park as well as our own police department and the Cook County Animal Control. This is not the case for this unimproved property across from your home.
Lastly, our Police Department has had interaction with a number of dog walkers at this particular location over the past few years. Perhaps you are unaware of this but the majority of violators using the property to walk their pets are from River Forest & Oak Park.
I hope this explanation sheds some light on our "take" of this situation.
 
Very truly,
Tim Gillian,
Village Administrator
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No holes.
FOCUS !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/January/2010 at 8:38am
Yooper, what did you ask the Village exactly? From the tone of his letter it seems that even we humans aren't allowed to walk on this huge property owned by us. "Prohibiting this use protects us from liability issues from potential injuries such as tripping and falling"

So we are barred from this HUGE plot of land as well? Hmmmm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/January/2010 at 11:28am
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

Yooper, what did you ask the Village exactly? From the tone of his letter it seems that even we humans aren't allowed to walk on this huge property owned by us. "Prohibiting this use protects us from liability issues from potential injuries such as tripping and falling"

So we are barred from this HUGE plot of land as well? Hmmmm
 
And I guess the kids who play baseball, soccer, football, etc might also trip and fall so they won't be allowed either. 
 
No holes in the statement though. Confused 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dogcatcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/January/2010 at 11:42am
I have never seen any kids playing in that field and i have a teenage son who also says nobody goes there except to watch the training excercises when they happen.
FOCUS !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yooperann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/January/2010 at 12:54pm
It wasn't my letter to the village (it was posted on a yahoo group we have here at the Grove Residences) but the question was definitely about the no dogs sign.  As you see from the answer, by that logic no one could use it, nor could we walk our leashed dogs anywhere else in FP except in the dog park.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/January/2010 at 1:02pm
Yep, yooper, that's kind of how it sounds. Bizarre for sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/January/2010 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by dogcatcher dogcatcher wrote:

I have never seen any kids playing in that field and i have a teenage son who also says nobody goes there except to watch the training excercises when they happen.
 
Maybe neither you nor your son have ever seen or heard of anyone playing over there but they do.  Over the past two summers kid's praticed baseball over there on a weekly basis. Looked like fathers and young (10 year olds or so) sons. Every fall people play football.  And there were soccer nets out there (not anymore) and kids played soccer. 
 
All of the above activities are great. I don't want any of that to stop. That's what green space is for.  But if the village is liable for dogs being injured or bringing on injury, than they are also liable for any injuries the kids or adults suffer. If liability is the issue, the sign should say no tressassing, not just no dogs allowed.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/January/2010 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by yooperann yooperann wrote:

As you see from the answer, by that logic no one could use it, nor could we walk our leashed dogs anywhere else in FP except in the dog park.  
agree, it does read like that - not sure why there's more liability at the altenheim than on a village sidewalk.
 
i think the response was needlessly legalese, and a bit defensive.
are you grovers organizing over there? sinister stuff :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/January/2010 at 5:42pm

per ordinance, appears there is no legal place for dogs except private property or the dog park.

also, a total of 3 dogs/cats per housing unit. (5-1-4)
also, also, you're supposed to clean up the urine. (5-1-7/B)
 


Edited by citizen - 17/January/2010 at 5:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yooperann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/January/2010 at 4:05pm
One more data point, coming to me second hand from a dog owner who says he heard it form a cop:  someone in the Groves building had a meeting with the mayor to complain about the dogs, hence the order.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/January/2010 at 10:08am
what was the nature of the complaint?
also, where do the residents of the Grove walk their dogs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arneharris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/January/2010 at 11:14am
The parks in my town do not allow dogs.
I think they should make paths on which you can walk your dog, but I agree with not letting them run around.  Too many lazy sh¡theads who don't clean up after their dogs would treat the parks as parkways...
"the sickly pale peach colored glare of the street light " - (streaming in backman's window...)
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