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watcher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/October/2010 at 2:24pm
Proviso East Suspension Rate 33%?

High School District Kicks Out 1 in 3 Students
Produced by Chip Mitchell on Friday, September 17, 2010

"I asked the district for its latest numbers but didn’t get them. So, I used the best I could find: the ones Proviso gives to the State of Illinois.

What I learned is that, year after year, the district suspends or expels one in three of its students. I looked at the state’s 50 districts with the biggest high-school enrollments and ranked them by their suspension rates. Proviso is No. 3 on that list.

I brought all these numbers to the district’s superintendent, Nettie Collins-Hart.

COLLINS-HART: I’ll tell you, Chip, I’d have to look at your data to see how you calculated this. I’m aware that we’re suspending more students than we want to suspend. Now, that I’m aware of!

MITCHELL: I’m just trying to figure out why so many students.

COLLINS-HART: I’d have to go back, but this is what I suspect are some of the most prevalent reasons: tardies, lack of attendance. We don’t begin with kicking a kid out of school. Those consequences -- they are incremental, increasing in severity. So we talk with our students, we counsel with our students. We have our parents come in. We provide in-school suspension. We provide after-school detention. Schools have Saturday School."




Edited by watcher - 12/October/2010 at 2:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/October/2010 at 4:14pm
Well, if the kid is 'lack of attendance' are they really kicking them out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/October/2010 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

Well, if the kid is 'lack of attendance' are they really kicking them out?


Reconcile that with what the District puts out to its communities.

“We, on the Board of Education, are so pleased that this program has accomplished exactly what we hoped it would,” said PTHS 209 Board Member Robin Foreman. “Our students are getting to school safely and on time. They’re spending more time in class and we are seeing improvements all around. Everything that we do is about supporting our students and our communities. This program is one of many that we’ve implemented over the years and we are just delighted to see that it is having such a positive impact.”



Edited by watcher - 12/October/2010 at 4:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/October/2010 at 10:40pm
Should students be suspended because they are not going to school or their classes?  Maybe a district alternative school would reduce these numbers.  Almost every school district in the state has one or access to a neighboring district's alternative program.  Some school districts have "safe schools" which house students who attend as an alternative to expulsion.  If the students don't go, then they can sit at home because they are not welcome in any public school district in the state of Illinois (and some neighboring states).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Number6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/October/2010 at 9:18am
I don't abide public administrators like Collins-Hart not having a satisfactory answer for such data as the 1/3 suspension / expulsion rate.  Maybe she didn't know, but I'd argue that when you get to be in charge you better be proactive about knowing and satisfactorily interpreting such data.  Maybe it's a question of resources, though.  It bears repeating my NSHO that the funding of public schools is inequitable. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/October/2010 at 9:22am
Originally posted by isis isis wrote:

Should students be suspended because they are not going to school or their classes?  Maybe a district alternative school would reduce these numbers.  Almost every school district in the state has one or access to a neighboring district's alternative program.  Some school districts have "safe schools" which house students who attend as an alternative to expulsion.  If the students don't go, then they can sit at home because they are not welcome in any public school district in the state of Illinois (and some neighboring states).


A series of devolving alternatives for students trapped in a failed institution?

Not every student who doesn't go into Proviso is doing so because they don't want an education. For some, the risk of going to school outweighs the consequences of not going. For them, the offered alternative programs increase their very real fear of bodily harm. A much higher concentration of bullies and even wider cracks through which they can fall.

At what point does the failure become complete? How and where is the district accountable to the taxpayers and communities?



"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/October/2010 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by Number6 Number6 wrote:

I don't abide public administrators like Collins-Hart not having a satisfactory answer for such data as the 1/3 suspension / expulsion rate.  Maybe she didn't know, but I'd argue that when you get to be in charge you better be proactive about knowing and satisfactorily interpreting such data.  Maybe it's a question of resources, though.  It bears repeating my NSHO that the funding of public schools is inequitable. 
agreed. i found her response ridiculously inappropriate. and sure hope she's faking her ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/October/2010 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by isis isis wrote:

If the students don't go, then they can sit at home because they are not welcome in any public school district in the state of Illinois (and some neighboring states).
while the feeling underlying this statement is understandable, it just won't do professionally.
no, i don't have easy answers but relegating 1/3rd of students to 'safe schools'(?) and prison is no solution.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/October/2010 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:


Not every student who doesn't go into Proviso is doing so because they don't want an education. For some, the risk of going to school outweighs the consequences of not going. For them, the offered alternative programs increase their very real fear of bodily harm. A much higher concentration of bullies and even wider cracks through which they can fall.

At what point does the failure become complete? How and where is the district accountable to the taxpayers and communities? 

So are you saying the schools should not offer alternative education opportunities?  What about the students who want to finish their education?  Many districts offer these "safe schools" - would you be saying the same thing if it was a district other than 209?   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/October/2010 at 5:31pm
[/QUOTE]
while the feeling underlying this statement is understandable, it just won't do professionally.
no, i don't have easy answers but relegating 1/3rd of students to 'safe schools'(?) and prison is no solution.[/QUOTE]

While I also do not believe that relegating 1/3 of the students to "safe schools" I do not think students who engage in behavior that results in an expulsion should be forgotten about by our education system.  We should provide alternative educational opportunities.  I do not mean solely for students who receive special education services, but rather any student.  I can name 10 suburban districts off the top of my head who provide these services.  Chicago has their own system as well.

As far as special ed students, they must have alternative educational services, but it is up to the district to decide what they are.  It can be tutoring, or an alternative educational setting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/October/2010 at 8:04pm
Originally posted by isis isis wrote:


Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:


At what point does the failure become complete? How and where is the district accountable to the taxpayers and communities? 


So are you saying the schools should not offer alternative education opportunities?  What about the students who want to finish their education?  Many districts offer these "safe schools" - would you be saying the same thing if it was a district other than 209?


If the numbers were as FUBAR as 209s? ABSOLUTELY.
But let's not dilute this. Yes, every school has discipline issues and yes, kids will be kids, but there is very little about Proviso that is NORMAL. It starts with the SWOs. (Students with options) who never enter the 209 schools. I won't dig out the demographics to show how skewed the enrollments are (new census data aren't likely to "improve" the numbers). The district has contended that its AVERAGE student enters with a 6th grade reading level. The school report card no longer includes data on mobility, attendance or graduations rates. I assume them to be roughly the same as they've been consistently for the past 30 years. DISMAL.

Perhaps you can explain Proviso's truancy numbers reported to ISBE?
For SY 2008-2009 they list 4,398 students as truant. 2009 enrollment was 4,871.

Who is accountable? To whom are they accountable?

In the end, are the kids getting away with more or less than the district in terms of their scams?

"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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