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    Posted: 03/September/2010 at 10:02am
are gonna sue the district? WTF!

proviso - no reinstatement for students

So how much is this folly gonna cost us?

Where are these "ministers" beforehand? Do all these boys attend church every Sunday and that's why the minister is sure they are worthy to go back to school? Have the ministers patrol the halls; put their money where their mouths are.

Gotta love the one kid's tshirt "this is what I look like when I'm ignoring you". Nice, very nice.

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That's called being too stupid to stay on message long enough to put your best foot forward.

Think about that. Not one adult intervened and told that idiot to lose the shirt.

And we wonder why these s**t-for-brains walk down the middle of streets whenever they feel like it. 


Edited by Dunlop Man - 03/September/2010 at 1:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Number6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/September/2010 at 2:28pm
Man, y'all missed it: I walked down the middle of the street a couple days ago with my boyfriend who was not wearing a belt.  How did you serious community activists reports miss this?  I guess your eye is really not on the prize. 

Also: does the punishment in this situation actually fit the crime?  You'd rather people be expelled for - not even taking part in a fight - not identifying perpetrators?  That seems silly.  A policy is a policy, but I'd rather minors be in school than out or in juvie where they will definitely learn skills not-conducive to participation in mainstream society (outside of banking, that is).  If anyone should be permanently expelled it should be bullies, and school officials will probably never systematically and accurately identify them.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/September/2010 at 7:34pm
what she said.
kids belong in school! one year (!?!) probation for being around a fight and not squealing? we've all seen the movie, right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xgQIokLsDI&feature=related
 
if the priests at st. bernadine's and ascension supported some local kids we'd call them liars?
and how about we not punish the kids (more) for the sins of the parents.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/September/2010 at 7:49pm
Sins of the parents? Not sure what you mean.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/September/2010 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

Sins of the parents? Not sure what you mean.
dunlop man's post that no parent offered media wardrobe advice.
if it was me, my shirt would say "this is what i look like when talking to hypocritical, self-serving wankers."
 
c'mon, the trib story was bare bones, to the point of being severely negligent for anyone not following the story from the beginning. fuel, baby.
if our small town weekly can manage to link to all previous related stories, damnit, the trib can.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/September/2010 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

Sins of the parents? Not sure what you mean.

dunlop man's post that no parent offered media wardrobe advice.
if it was me, my shirt would say "this is what i look like when talking to hypocritical, self-serving wankers."

 

c'mon, the trib story was bare bones, to the point of being severely negligent for anyone not following the story from the beginning. fuel, baby.

if our small town weekly can manage to link to all previous related stories, damnit, the trib can.


There are no previously related stories. A hallway fight at Proviso? Covered in the Trib? A 209 Board meeting in June when the students were expelled? YAWN. Now, if there was Youtube video or if it were girls fighting? Maybe?

For the trib, a couple of ministers hold a press conference and they get column inches?
And Chrissy Welch getting an opportunity to demonstrate his decider side? C'mon now. This is how he wants to define success?









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/September/2010 at 10:16pm
Interesting how no one commented on how Chris Welch stood by his board's decision to expel the students.  I especially liked how the ministers comments about race was squashed by Welch when he commented that he "walked the halls of Proviso" and that such behavior was not going to be tolerated.  I wholeheartedly support the actions by the board.

I am glad these knuckleheads were booted out for a year.  Shows that this crap is not going to be tolerated.  If it makes one person think twice about jumping someone with a pack of guys (or girls), then it is worth it.  
No, I don't want those kids in school.  While I know those not in school are most likely not being productive citizens, schools are not holding pens either.  

Either be in school to prepare for the working world, or begin what will undoubtedly be a life of failures and dead ends.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/September/2010 at 7:32am
isis, how do you know those kids are knuckleheads? the trib offers no evidence.
i would think if those kids are undoubtedly on the road to failure and dead ends they would not be fighting to stay in school.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/September/2010 at 7:55am
Citizen, is it the kids fighting or their mamas? or the ministers (perhaps hoping that Jackson will read about it and lead a charge)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/September/2010 at 10:10am
sigh.
i would hope the kids' parents would be involved. until i have more info than that pitiful trib piece offered, i'll take them at their word.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/September/2010 at 11:09am
Here's a column from the Sun Times: Mary Mitchell piece

Seems two of the boys aren't even in district!

Also, seems they have been suspended on other things....no angels.

Read her piece and see if it helps fill in any of the gaps left by the Trib's piece.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/September/2010 at 11:14am
Here's one of the moms facebook picture
checked out a picture first on the gospel newswire that shows this same woman standing next to one of the ministers (of course, not wearing this dress or pose). I wonder if she squats like that at services?

Edited by piehead - 05/September/2010 at 11:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/September/2010 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

Here's a column from the Sun Times: Mary Mitchell piece

Seems two of the boys aren't even in district!

Also, seems they have been suspended on other things....no angels.

Read her piece and see if it helps fill in any of the gaps left by the Trib's piece.


"As harsh as that is, it may be the only way to keep Proviso East from succumbing to the problems that have ruined some Chicago public schools."

Too late.

Again, this does not take anything whatsoever from the students and teachers who make the best of being trapped within a failed institution, but PEHS' "glory days" have long since been replaced by a failure rate tolerable ONLY by those without another option. Daily threats, altercations, intimidations with which the trying segment has to deal, avoid and suffer is NOT healthy for anyone.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/September/2010 at 12:52pm
And then there's this: "Additionally, the school board president said two of the students for whom the ministers are advocating do not even live in the school district and shouldn't be attending Proviso in the first place."

So why were they?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/September/2010 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

isis, how do you know those kids are knuckleheads? the trib offers no evidence.
i would think if those kids are undoubtedly on the road to failure and dead ends they would not be fighting to stay in school.

To answer your first question, Citizen, I know.

In regards to your response to my line, "i would think if those kids are undoubtedly on the road to failure and dead ends they would not be fighting to stay in school."  Do you really think they are fighting to stay in school because they want and see the value of an education?  This may come as a shock, but there are many kids that go to school for the sole purpose of socializing with their friends or doing things not included on any teacher's syllabus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/September/2010 at 4:39pm

isis, appears you have inside info/experience - fair enough. otoh, all this board had was a photo and a story written by a 4th grader in a hurry.

i don't know anything about these kids so have no idea if they value their education.
 
the mary mitchell piece was a bit circumspect but good. not sure what she means by 'due process' tho.
my best guess, now, is that these kids have a bit of history at PT and this was the school's opportunity to get rid of them. is that about right?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/September/2010 at 8:22pm
Due Process is the series of steps that must be taken when there is a challenge to a decision (in this case, by a school body).  Due Process serves two goals.  One is to produce, through the use of fair procedures, more accurate results.  In this case, a Disciplinary Hearing was conducted to hear both sides in the presence of a Hearing Officer (there are only about five  Hearing Officers in the state of Illinois).  It is also intended to prevent the wrongful deprivation of interests.  The other goals is to make people feel that the government has treated them fairly by listening to their side of the story.

Another legal process that must be used in cases where students receive special education services is a Manifestation Determination Review.  The end of result of this is to determine of the actions that took place are a Manifestation of their disability.  That is, if a student pulls a fire alarm, and they have receive services for having a Behavior Disorder, then the action is a Manifestation of their disability.  They cannot be expelled in these cases, but rather alternative education placements may be in order.  If the action is not a Manifestation of their disability, they may be disciplined as other general education students.

Hope this helps.


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yes, thanks.
there is so little actual reporting - was it the position of the school board that the 3 young men did, in fact, take part in the mob action/assault? was there really a video of the event?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dunlop Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/September/2010 at 11:06am
Originally posted by Number6 Number6 wrote:

Man, y'all missed it: I walked down the middle of the street a couple days ago with my boyfriend who was not wearing a belt.  How did you serious community activists reports miss this?   

Also: does the punishment in this situation actually fit the crime?  You'd rather people be expelled for - not even taking part in a fight - not identifying perpetrators?  That seems silly.  A policy is a policy, but I'd rather minors be in school than out or in juvie where they will definitely learn skills not-conducive to participation in mainstream society (outside of banking, that is).  If anyone should be permanently expelled it should be bullies, and school officials will probably never systematically and accurately identify them.   

Maybe there's a correlation with being stupid enough to walk down the middle of a street and not being able to read an English sentence, Number 6.

No one- except you- said those yahoos were "expelled," permanently or not. They were suspended. For a year. Under the law they must be given educational alternatives. 

I'll say it again- the t-shirt on that one jerk off says it all. He doesn't give a crap about anyone but himself. 

And Citizen, just how much detail do you expect from a news story. The Trib reported both sides of the story. Mary Mitchell did more in depth, but she's a columnist, free to report in non-news article fashion. 
"I don't give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." - Harry Truman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/September/2010 at 11:17am
#6, if your child was accosted and these kids wouldn't tell what they know, would you feel the same way?
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                                 Tongue
this is what i look like when i'm ignoring you
 
 


Edited by citizen - 06/September/2010 at 11:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dunlop Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/September/2010 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

                             Tongue
this is what i look like when i'm ignoring you
 

Clap
"I don't give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." - Harry Truman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/September/2010 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by Dunlop Man Dunlop Man wrote:


Maybe there's a correlation with being stupid enough to walk down the middle of a street and not being able to read an English sentence, Number 6.
No one- except you- said those yahoos were "expelled," permanently or not. They were suspended. For a year. Under the law they must be given educational alternatives. 


The headline on Mary Mitchell's column: Proviso East stands behind expulsions

Expulsion, expelled...

Not suspended.
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Apparently both the Trib and Mitchell got it wrong in the headline.

An expulsion is permanent. As in, get out and don't let the door hit you. You're gone, and don't come back without a good lawyer. 

A suspension has a term. In this case, one year- their junior year. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/September/2010 at 10:26pm
You can actually be "expelled" from school up to two years.  I think the difference in terms has to do with enrollment.  You are suspended from school, but are still on their rosters and can still be eligible to earn credit.  An expulsion means your schedule is wiped clean, and you are not on the rosters for attendance purposes.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/September/2010 at 7:25am
Originally posted by Dunlop Man Dunlop Man wrote:

Apparently both the Trib and Mitchell got it wrong in the headline.

An expulsion is permanent. As in, get out and don't let the door hit you. You're gone, and don't come back without a good lawyer.

A suspension has a term. In this case, one year- their junior year.


The problem, AISI, at 209 isn't that a few bad apples are disrupting the norm. It's that disruption IS the norm. Clearly, too many of the student body are just doing time.

So Chrissy & Co. should not get away with scapegoating. These students are out. Problem solved? Nothing to see here, move along.

Meanwhile 1 in 5 students will move in and out of the circus. On any given day, 2 of 10 will not be in school, 1 in 10 will dropout and almost half the male seniors won't graduate. But it's only news when two kids want to get back in?









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Number6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/September/2010 at 12:59pm
Personal attacks aside, Dunlop Man, the matter at hand is whether or not expulsion from school and/or suspension for a year is appropriate punishment for witnessing a fight and failing to identify the participants.  I still say no.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/September/2010 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by Number6 Number6 wrote:

Personal attacks aside, Dunlop Man, the matter at hand is whether or not expulsion from school and/or suspension for a year is appropriate punishment for witnessing a fight and failing to identify the participants.  I still say no.


There were 12 students "involved" in the fight. Only 6 were tossed.
The three students being championed by the WS Revs were alleged to have been identified as active participants by others.

By a preponderance of the evidence and taking their history into account, they were sent packing.

It doesn't scream unfair to me. Expulsion opened other options and gave them one year to consider their choices.



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Well A while back my Son Got in trouble for being Near the Fight and was given a 1 month Timeout from School, I asked to see The Video that Showed him Doing Wrong Other then standing there, Guess What,, I was Told No.. Do anyone Want to Guess Why??? Yep, I'm sure you Guessed it, It was to Protect The Other kids from My Viewing.. OR it's Wrong For me to View my Son Standing near a Fight in the Lunch Room.. I Wonder Wonder What I would have Saw.. I did not sign a Waver that Give's Proviso The Right To Film my son And keep me from viewing because it's to Protect innocent Kids?? 

Some Girls Ok, 2 were in Trouble for Fighting in the Lunch room BUT Here's the Twist.. So was the Third  girl who used her phone and then uploaded it to youtube.. Yep, She's in Trouble For I Guess Watching And Reporting To the World Whats Going on in the School.. Veynice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEQ9qXOOyr0

I Guess this Kind of Video Showing A DipSHi* in Spanish Class while a Teacher is in the same room Sitting behind his Desk Just getting his Check.. Don't Throw anyone out, This is a Common Thing at Proviso east.. I will Find the Whole 40 Sec Video of the 2 Girls Fighting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDP4bSFNXpM
Watch and Enjoy. .

As for these 2 Kids/punks "I don't know them" ifthey are out of District.. What is the Problem of No School for 1 year? ? Go Home to YOUR town and Sign up.. It's really Easy.. BCB./..

I'm Chevy Chase and It's Time for the news.
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