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I guess illegals are okay at our schools?

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piehead View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20/September/2010 at 2:18pm
Judging from this article they are....

immigrant groups launch campaign

"But we are trying to fight for our rights and our dreams. I don't think there's anything illegal about wanting to get educated," Del Real said.


Their rights? What rights; they are here illegally!

"Despite being undocumented, Salgado, a senior at Proviso Mathematics and Science Academy in Forest Park, is sure she is headed to college, and she is part of a movement informing her her Melrose Park neighborhood and calling U.S. senators as they approach a vote on the Dream Act, short for the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act."


What a load of crappola.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/September/2010 at 10:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/September/2010 at 8:39am
No, send them back. They can enter the legal way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/September/2010 at 9:06am
the Dream Act is a (possible) law - pending legislation. immigration laws constantly change - w/the times.
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2 Hours of Typing. Thinking, Getting Data, And I had A lot. it Even Jumped Subject's About our Schools to Crossing the Border to gain a US Son/Daughter in Texas, Which Sooner or later is still about the Schools..

The Illegal's Should Be "FORCED"  "They did commit a Crime" Forced to Get a Visa  Or GET OUT.

If after their Visa they Want to Swear Oath to the US for Citizenship That's the Goal to Enter the USA,

IF it's Too Hard.. I Guess your Second Language course can be  held down in a Mexico School and you can Take English Class .. BCB.. 


http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/why-dont-we-try-mexicos-immigration-law


Edited by bcbandit - 28/September/2010 at 2:28am
I'm Chevy Chase and It's Time for the news.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2010 at 10:01am
There was a case in Texas that went all the way to the Supreme Court in the early 80's.  It is illegal to refuse public education to a child because their parents brought them here illegally.  The reasoning is that the child did not break the law, the parents did.
 
These are CHILDREN people.  As Alma Powell said, "We should all start each day saying 'How are the children?'"
 
Let's give these kids a break.  They are not responsible for their parents actions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2010 at 10:12am
Martini, when they are quoted as saying: "But we are trying to fight for our rights and our dreams. I don't think there's anything illegal about wanting to get educated," Del Real said.". . . . fight for their rights? they have no rights? In Mexico, they'd be sent back to wherever they came from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2010 at 10:23am
'they' are fighting for the right to apply for U.S. citizenship, and you have a problem w/that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2010 at 11:17am
I re-read the article and I don't see any mention of these kids wanting to become US citizens. They just want to go to our schools.

Most all the Mexican born people I work with can't wait til they can retire and go back to Mexico to live. Few are citizens; some are here on green cards. Not too many really want to become Americans. They consider themselves Mexicans, first and foremost.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2010 at 11:18am
i thought we were discussing the DREAM act?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2010 at 11:52am
Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

i thought we were discussing the DREAM act?

Okay, again, no mention of that being or becoming an American citizen. "The legislation would grant conditional legal status to people illegally brought into the country as children if they attend college or join the U.S. military."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2010 at 12:25pm
it's a path to legal citizenship for illegal minors via attending college or joining the military. an earned reward.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2010 at 12:29pm
If someone one is willing to go to the desert and risk getting killsed for me I have no problem granting them citizenship. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2010 at 1:49pm
But, and I'll say it slowly, D o   t h e y   w a n t   t o   b e   A m e r i c a n s ? ? ? ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2010 at 2:00pm
t h i s  c o n v e r s a t i o n  i s  g e t t i n g  v e r y  s t r a n g e.
call me crazy, but if an individual applies for US citizenship, i assume they want to be an american citizen. yes, even tho their heritage is mexican, or irish, or italian. jeesh.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2010 at 2:05pm

Citizen maybe the problem is that you and I aren't surrounded by co-workers who are from other countries and plan to retire back there.  I have talked to many Hispanics who want very much to become American citizens.  They just lack the money and time the process now takes.  Back in my great-grandparents day you showed up, checked in at Ellis Island and that was that.  Now it takes years and money.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2010 at 2:14pm
But the Dream Act is not about citizenship. It appears to be about "the opportunity to earn conditional permanent residency" There is a difference.

Dream Act

And Martini you are right; I am surrounded by many people from different countries. One of my Indian (Eastern) directors would go back tomorrow except that his son (who was born here), does not. He plans on returning as soon as he can.

My Mexican born and raised boss, is not a citizen. He will never be a citizen. He's just bidding his time here in the states (at a high paying job) til he can return.

Another Mexican girlfriend can't wait to retire back to Mexico (and both her children were born here). Heck, she smuggled her horse here from Mexico. But he has alien status now

The ones from the U.K. can't wait to get back (they never sold their homes over there; just renting them out for now; and renting here).

I could go on. Yes, these folks want to take advantage of an American education but want to return to their country. They do not consider themselves American.


Edited by piehead - 28/September/2010 at 2:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arneharris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2010 at 6:00pm
I'm not buying your anecdotal evidence.  The first generation of kids, raised by their parents, will think like their parents.  Give 'em a generation or two to take root and they'll never want to leave, just like any other 3rd, 4th generation American, evidenced by your quote:
"One of my Indian (Eastern) directors would go back tomorrow except that his son (who was born here), does not."

Of course, some do come here, make American $$, then want to retire "back home" where it's cheap. 
a) that indicates there's jobs here, still  and
b) so would I!  Many ppl do retire to cheaper, resort-like areas all over the world.

anecdotal:
A Paki coworker of mine, although he loves going to Pakistan with a grand and living like a king for a time, was born here and after a couple weeks there he tires of it.  They know where it's good.

I don't know any of my (predominantly Mexican) neighbors who would rather go back to the sh¡thole from whence they came.  They're not exactly stealing away from high end resort areas.


Edited by arneharris - 28/September/2010 at 8:01pm
"the sickly pale peach colored glare of the street light " - (streaming in backman's window...)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2010 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

But the Dream Act is not about citizenship. It appears to be about "the opportunity to earn conditional permanent residency" There is a difference.
ok, ms. fancypants legalbeagle, what's the difference? LOL
 
my father & sibs all emigrated from some green islandy place; don't worry, it was in the atlantic.
some of them pined after the olde isle and visited most every year but my dad never wanted to see the place again.
so?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Deeds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/September/2010 at 8:55am
Undocumented is just a PC term for illegal alien, so I agree with Piehead. Which law is it that says we owe a free education to anyone who waltzed into the country without a visa? Isn't that a bit unfair to all of those who came to the US on Student Visa's?
What I can't understand is how our folks in DC can vote on bills to afford illegal aliens access to medical care, unemployment benefits, education, and all those things that should be reserved for 'citizens' of this nation. Why should anyone from Mexico be treated differently than someone who came here from Europe, Asia, Africa, or whatever? I don't get it.

Since the Mexicano's feel they are entitled to all of the rights & benefits of our country, why not make it legal and just declare Mexico a US Colony? And I'll bet if we asked them to apply for statehood as the 51st State that they'd all be offended. Well I'm offended that they think they can freeload off of our system or that we owe them benefits that we don't give to those from other countries. If you're going to come here illegally and work for cash, fine. Just don't expect to be paid for it in social benefits as well.



Those who can make you believe absurdities have the power to make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire~
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/September/2010 at 9:29am
Thank you administrator for someone else seeing this for what it is.

Send them back!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/September/2010 at 9:54am
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

Send them back!
you see no other options?
 
DC has been diddling w/comprehensive immigration reform for quite a while, but demogogues being what they are...
the U.S. has always had an stream of new folks (see: everyone here's parents/grandparents) and actually needs it to keep the economy rolling. who do you suppose is going to pay for your social security when you need it?
or are we sending that back, too?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/September/2010 at 10:27am
So all the ones that came illegally should now be welcomed in with open arms? Sorry, not by me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/September/2010 at 10:28am
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

So all the ones that came illegally should now be welcomed in with open arms?
i don't think that is called comprehensive immigration reform.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Deeds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/September/2010 at 12:21pm
I don't care about sending them back. And I don't care about giving them benefits as long as they pay taxes into the system like everyone else does. But if they are 'undocumented' I assume that means they have no ssn card or pay federal & state taxes.
If that's the case, then as 'undocumented' residents they shouldn't be expecting to get free medical care, a link card, or access to our public school systems. Nor should they be able to collect workman's comp, unemployment benefits, SSI, or any other benefit that a 'documented' immigrant would qualify for.
How many of us 'citizens' have been denied something (anything) that we applied for because they couldn't "find us in the system"? If you're not "in" the system, you shouldn't get anything "from" the system.
As they say at the Chinese Laundry.... "No tickee, no washee".





Edited by administrator - 29/September/2010 at 12:23pm
Those who can make you believe absurdities have the power to make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire~
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arneharris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/September/2010 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by administrator administrator wrote:

As they say at the Chinese Laundry.... "No tickee, no washee".


Not my Chinese laundry.
"the sickly pale peach colored glare of the street light " - (streaming in backman's window...)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arneharris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/September/2010 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

Send them back!


Unless they're hot!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/October/2010 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by administrator administrator wrote:

Which law is it that says we owe a free education to anyone who waltzed into the country without a visa?
 
This law:

 

PLYLER, SUPERINTENDENT, TYLER INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT, ET AL. v. DOE, GUARDIAN, ET AL.

 

No. 80-1538

 

SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES

SUMMARY:

The Texas legislature enacted a statute which withholds from local school districts any state funds for the education of children who were not "legally admitted" into the United States and which authorizes local school districts to deny enrollment in their public schools to such children. Constitutional challenges were made to the provisions by a number of parties. One case was a class action filed in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas on behalf of certain school-aged children of Mexican origin residing in Smith County, Texas, who could not establish that they had been legally admitted into the United States, against the Superintendent and members of the Board of Trustees of the Tyler Independent School District, complaining of the exclusion of the plaintiff children from the public schools of the School District. After making extensive findings of fact, the District Court held that illegal aliens were entitled to the protection of the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, and that the Texas statute violated that clause (458 F Supp 569). The United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit upheld an injunction issued by the District Court, affirming in all essential respects the equal protection analysis of the District Court, concluding that the Texas statute was constitutionally infirm regardless of whether it was tested using a more rational basis standard or some more stringent test (658 F2d 448). A number of other actions filed in Federal District Courts in Texas were consolidated by the Judicial Panel on Multidistrict Litigation into a single action against state officials to be heard in the United States District Court for the Southern District of Texas. The District Court held that the Texas statute violated the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, concluding that the statute was not carefully tailored to advance the asserted state interest in an acceptable manner (501 F Supp 544), and, apparently on the strength of its earlier decision, the Court of Appeals summarily affirmed the decision of the District Court.

On appeal, the United States Supreme Court affirmed. In an opinion by Brennan, J., joined by Marshall, Blackmun, Powell, and Stevens, JJ., it was held that the Texas statute violated the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, neither the undocumented status of the alien children vel non, nor the state's asserted interest in the preservation of its limited resources for the education of its lawful residents furthering some substantial goal of the state in order to establish a sufficient rational basis for the discrimination contained in the statute.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/October/2010 at 11:10pm
1982.
thanks, martini.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/October/2010 at 9:19am
You're welcome citizen.  Unfortunately, Texas is still trying to drag their educational system back into the last century.  Their latest is re-writing the textbooks to bash Islam and dispel evolution.
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