Forest Park Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General Discussion > Soapbox
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Problems with video poker disclosed
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Problems with video poker disclosed

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Bill Dwyer Bill Dwyer wrote:

...the referendum was advisory, not binding. 
How common are advisory referendums? Obviously the door is open, maybe they feel if an ordinance can be written, which addresses residents' concerns, there may not be much push-back.
Back to Top
Bill Dwyer View Drop Down
Pillar
Pillar
Avatar

Joined: 31/August/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 1:22pm
Pretty common. Can't give a percentage. Public advisory referenda were established in 1980 and have been used thousands of times since to assist in establishing or revoking various municipal policies. 

In fact, the election code refers to them as "questions of public policy." 

FWIW, BTW, I think the support for video gambling would be wider if the municipalities' share of the pie wasn't a paltry nickel on the dollar. 
Facts are a bitch and the truth most hurts the liars
Back to Top
Bill Dwyer View Drop Down
Pillar
Pillar
Avatar

Joined: 31/August/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 1:32pm
This is neither here nor there, because the law would need to be changed, and I'm still not a fan of video gambling, but, for the sake of argument...

Why does the split have to be 1/3-1/3-1/3? 
Why not use 1/7s (14.3%)? So 2/7th to bars, 2/7th to the middlemen, 2/7th to the state and county, and 1/7 to the municipality. 
Or 1/8th- 12.5%. Or 1/9th-11/1%. 
14.3 cents on the dollar- or 12.5 or 11.1- beat the hell out of a nickel. 

Just don't treat the towns and villages like the unloved stepchild. They're the units of government that will have to deal with the bulk of the problems video gambling is likely to create. They should be fairly compensated. 
Facts are a bitch and the truth most hurts the liars
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 1:40pm
Isn't a nickel on the dollar the same split as lottery sales?
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by Bill Dwyer Bill Dwyer wrote:

... I think the support for video gambling would be wider if the municipalities' share of the pie wasn't a paltry nickel on the dollar.
Agree, the local municipalities get a tiny % of the profits, makes me wonder if there are any kick-backs going on under-the-counter. Would having gambling in our local bars add to the expense of monitoring these establishments by the FPPD? Not so sure about that, do you have any data?

Edited by logic - 11/October/2013 at 1:49pm
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/October/2013 at 8:22am
yes, a nickel on the dollar is the same split as Lotto, but the selling lotto agent also gets a share of winning tickets that it sells for certain games.

Non-home rule municipalities are limited to a $25 license fee per machine. Home rule communities can assess whatever fees they deem
proper.

This could spur another push for FoPa Home Rule. With video gambling as its centerpiece.

"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
Bill Dwyer View Drop Down
Pillar
Pillar
Avatar

Joined: 31/August/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/October/2013 at 9:44am
Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:

 Non-home rule municipalities are limited to a $25 license fee per machine. Home rule communities can assess whatever fees they deem
proper.
This could spur another push for FoPa Home Rule. With video gambling as its centerpiece. 

I wouldn't put it past them.
 
But Forest Park could do what River Forest, another non-home rule community, did when it needed relief from limits on the use of newly approved additional sales tax revenue.

They contacted their representatives and also trekked down to Springfield to eventually secure legislation allowing them greater latitude with sales tax revenues from a referendum. 

Forest Park hasn't maxed out it's sales tax revenue yet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they have 1/4 percent left they could add. And could go to referendum for more. They could raise their low vehicle sticker rates. 

I'd vote for any and all of that, but not home rule. Not with the crew we have in office currently. Totally untrustworthy. 
Facts are a bitch and the truth most hurts the liars
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/October/2013 at 10:39pm
Vehicle sticker price increases......really? That would just apply to us suckers that buy them.

Many people that reside around me do not and have never purchased them! Even after contacting the po-lice! So a tax revenue from a few....again?!
Back to Top
Iceman View Drop Down
Nomad
Nomad
Avatar

Joined: 17/October/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iceman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/October/2013 at 12:23pm

I would like to speak to the various comments about video poker. First I think that the comments the Tribune article makes about the bad guys being let in are disturbing. I've heard that Joe Berrio's, acting as a lobbyist, was able to lessen the restrictions on who gets in.
Second, Mr. Dwyer writes that the "Waterworks bar in Lyons is "on track" to pull in 250,000 this year. The bar gets a third- 83,000 - plus the machine operator, which is Dublino, gets another third and the State and local governments get the rest. Lyon's share will be a hopping five percent - 12,250." A point of clarification. The article is about Dublino being a contract seller. He is not the machine operator, he does not get 83,000 (actually the correct number is 87,500-35%). It seems to me that if restaurants and bars in Brookfield, Berwyn and Lyons can knock down an additional 875,000, then bars in Forest Park are really in trouble! How do you compete with that? Also, the value of restaurants and bars in those towns has absolutely exploded! Obviously property values in those business districts has also got to be exploding.
I know that a Forest Park business owner (Zyg Stutz - Circle Bowl and Stutz Plumbing) recently fired a million dollars at a bar up North to cash in on the machines. Yet in Forest Park R Place, Pioneer, Circle Inn and Fiorenza are openly on the market, no buyers. Zambonies was bought for 20 cents on the dollar and several other restaurants and bars are quietly, desperately being shopped.
My simple prediction is that at least half of the bars and restaurants will not be here in five years.  Corner a beer distributor and ask how sales are in Forest Park, I have. The overwhelming majority of restaurants and bars are hurting,  Down, in this year of recovery while restaurants and bars in Brookfield flush with machine money, run open air trolleys full of Forest Park customers!  If you had a million dollars, would you invest it in towns like Brookfield and Berwyn or Forest Park?  Drive down Madison midnight Sun, Mon, Wed.  I think you will be shocked a the emptiness.
   Mr. Dwyer correctly states that Waterworks is on pace to give Lyons 12,500. If thirty Forest Park liquor establishments created 12,500 apiece, the 375,000 the Village receives  could be used to establish a scholarship fund for a Forest Park students to stay in this town and attend Fenwick, St. Joes or the private school of their choice. In addition liquor license fees could be greatly increased as a way of increasing the local "take." Who knows, maybe people would keep their families here after their kids finish 8th grade.



Edited by bcbandit - 18/October/2013 at 7:49pm
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/October/2013 at 2:38pm
Yep, I gotta agree with Iceman. I've driven past our FP Drinking Establishments at times when they should be hopping and they are NOT! But other establishments in towns/villages with legal gambling are doing quite the brisk business. I know because I've taken almost all my leisure activities outside of the village I live in. It's a shame.

But you have Berwyn with all the music venues on Roosevelt, add in all their legal gambling in restaurant/bars and throw in Brookfield's places.....I only have so many times a week I can afford to go out and only a few places to spend it at!

Many of my other Forest Park friends are doing the same. How do I know this; because I keep running into them outside the village's borders. We hate that we have to leave town to have adult fun any more. Forest Park's bar scene is boring. Unless you want to hang out at the trouble bars on Madison (Saliente comes to mind as it is often in the paper).
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/October/2013 at 3:15pm
Also believe what Iceman posted, the younger adults I work with would get together after hrs and on days-off, their destination was always Forest Park. That is no longer the case. Why just drink when you can have fun drinking and gambling in other nearby communities?

People are creatures of habit, once they grow accustomed to going elsewhere, they may not comeback. It really would be a shame if Madison St became the street of empty storefronts again, not to mention the loss of revenue.

The only thing I'm extremely skeptical about is the reference to a scholarship fund, don't think it would happen, don't even know if it would be legal. If by some remote chance it did, would need to keep a close eye on the who, what and where.
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/October/2013 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:


The only thing I'm extremely skeptical about is the reference to a scholarship fund, don't think it would happen, don't even know if it would be legal. If by some remote chance it did, would need to keep a close eye on the who, what and where.

If it were administered by the Village, yes, quite skeptical. If it were administered by the county, ever more skeptical. If it were administered by the state, fogetaboutit!
Back to Top
jerry View Drop Down
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 324
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/October/2013 at 2:02pm
Iceman, your 5 year prediction doesn't mean much, a large percentage of start up business go under in the first five years. Ass for video gambling, it seems Forest Parkers didn't want it, or doesn't that mean anything.
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/October/2013 at 2:32pm
jerry, you can easily do your own research. Take a walk or drive down Madison when the businesses would normally be very busy and tell us what you see. Is there any validity in what's been posted here? Ya think customers are spending their money elsewhere, where they have more options, or does the activity appear to be the same?
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/October/2013 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

jerry, you can easily do your own research. Take a walk or drive down Madison when the businesses would normally be very busy and tell us what you see. Is there any validity in what's been posted here? Ya think customers are spending their money elsewhere, where they have more options, or does the activity appear to be the same?


From my unscientific research it appears that bars, with no other "draw", aren't faring well while Bar/Food, Bar/Entertainment places seem to be doing okay.

Is video gambling the ONLY draw? Obviously not. Is it the "easy money", dough!
"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
citizen View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 9659
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/October/2013 at 6:29pm
i think the question is, what will we (FP) do for money?
i think it is ludicrous that govt promotes gambling (lottery, etc.) gambling has never been accepted as a virtuous pursuit - it sits on the edge of adult fun/personal destruction. it's sure not a 'greater good' activity.

what if, and i'm quite serious, the state not only legalized prostitution and/or heroin use, but promoted it and took a cut? 
neither are intrinsically evil but what the hell? again, adult fun w/the threat of personal destruction. 
Pottersville. 

Back to Top
jerry View Drop Down
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 324
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/October/2013 at 8:35am
Logic, what is it I am suppose to research, start up business'es have been researched that's where the five years comes from. The voter's voted not to have video gambling, don't need to researched that either.
Several years ago the liqour licence fee was raised the bar owner's all said it was going to put them out of business, it didn't.
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/October/2013 at 8:36am
Originally posted by jerry jerry wrote:

Iceman, your 5 year prediction doesn't mean much, a large percentage of start up business go under in the first five years. Ass for video gambling, it seems Forest Parkers didn't want it, or doesn't that mean anything.
the few voters that went to the polls and probably don't even frequent the bars are the ones who voted NO.

Can't remember the last meal/drink out in FP other than Friday night went to Tapas to hear a friend's band play, but only stayed for 2 beers.   Had dinner in Brookfield at a restaurant that offers gaming along with my good grilled fish!
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/October/2013 at 8:37am
Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

i think the question is, what will we (FP) do for money?
i think it is ludicrous that govt promotes gambling (lottery, etc.) gambling has never been accepted as a virtuous pursuit - it sits on the edge of adult fun/personal destruction. it's sure not a 'greater good' activity.

what if, and i'm quite serious, the state not only legalized prostitution and/or heroin use, but promoted it and took a cut? 
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">neither are intrinsically evil but what the hell? </span>again, adult fun w/the threat of personal destruction. 
Pottersville. 

they can legalize prostitution, would probably keep some women safer. Not much for the thought of legal heroin.
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/October/2013 at 10:17am
Originally posted by jerry jerry wrote:

Logic, what is it I am suppose to research, start up business'es have been researched that's where the five years comes from. The voter's voted not to have video gambling, don't need to researched that either.
Several years ago the liqour licence fee was raised the bar owner's all said it was going to put them out of business, it didn't.
jerry, you need do nothing. My suggestion, it was only a suggestion, was to see for yourself if the claims made by Iceman could be true. Personally, I don't frequent Madison St or any of the drinking/eating establishments in the area. I go to work at a time when most people are coming home, watch my grandkids so my daughter can finish school and shop for necessities. I do rely on info from others, who from my perspective, have nothing to gain by lying to me.
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/October/2013 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by citizen citizen wrote:

i think the question is, what will we (FP) do for money? i think it is ludicrous that govt promotes gambling (lottery, etc.) gambling has never been accepted as a virtuous pursuit - it sits on the edge of adult fun/personal destruction. it's sure not a 'greater good' activity.
what if, and i'm quite serious, the state not only legalized prostitution and/or heroin use, but promoted it and took a cut? neither are intrinsically evil but what the hell?, adult fun w/the threat of personal destruction.Pottersville.
Actually the lottery was sold to the public as promoting the "greater good".

Drinking booze also "sits on the edge of adult fun/personal destruction. it's sure not a 'greater good' activity". How did outlawing that work for us?

Regular heroin use changes brain/body function which very often leads to other major health problems. Would the state be picking up the tab for that?

Prostitution is legal in some areas of Nevada, believe it's had little impact on the lives of the "street prostitutes" many of whom suffer from addiction or poverty.

Gambling is available throughout the greater Chicagoland area, why not a piece of the pie for FP?

Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/October/2013 at 9:00am
"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/October/2013 at 9:36am
And this is a picture of..........................
Back to Top
jerry View Drop Down
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 324
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/October/2013 at 5:06pm
Pie, It looks like a picture of Scratch Kitchen, and they seem to be doing OK
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 8:14am
watcher, should we be expecting similar photos of all eating/drinking establishments within the boundaries of FP or a select few?

Edited by logic - 22/October/2013 at 8:55am
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 9:04am
Yes, it does look like Scratch. But I highly doubt they would/could get video gambling in there anyways. No area large enough to put the machines (to comply with the state regulations)!

Back to Top
Iceman View Drop Down
Nomad
Nomad
Avatar

Joined: 17/October/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iceman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 10:20am

I have some comments on your posts. First, Bill Dwyer made a comment that he would be more likely to be in favor or gaming if the municipality got more than a paltry 5%.  I believe that’s pretty insightful. 10% and I believe no one would opt out.  Furthermore, I understand that the “gaming act” is helping fund $600,000 copper doors in the State Capital, ouch!

My second comment concerns Citizens opinion that heroin use is not intrinsically evil.  I don’t agree with him but maybe 30 years ago I might have.  I wonder how that statement might be received in a Narcotics Anonymous meeting?  I guess in my mind most consumer goods, McDonald’s hamburgers, alcohol, gambling, all can reach the point of “evil” when they are over used. However all are used enjoyably by tens of millions of people at least a couple of times a year.  You can’t say the same about heroin.  It is different.

                To Logic’s skepticism about a scholarship fund, you’re right.  It was my feeble attempt to think outside the box.

                Jerry, you made several comments I take issue with.  First, a “five year prediction doesn’t mean much.  A large percentage of businesses go under in the first 5 years.”  Jerry, when I mentioned Circle Inn, Pioneer and R Place, I wasn’t referring to start up businesses.  As a matter of fact Circle Inn was one of the first bars up at the end of prohibition.  (Wonder if your great grandfather opposed it?  lol).  Also, the overwhelming majority of startups do succeed when they are properly capitalized.

                Second you stated that after “the liquor license fee was raised, the bar owners all said it was going to put them out of business.”  Jerry, no bar owner said that liquor license increase would put them out of business much less ALL of them.  My recollection is that 3 bar owners stood up and talked for the allotted 90 seconds.  The issue wasn’t that the license fee was to be increased but rather the amount greatly exceeded the rate of inflation.

                Watcher, you take one picture of one place and use it as an argument that Forest Park restaurants and bars are doing just fine. Really!?  Why only ONE picture?  Also your picture does not explain how Zambonies was sold for 20 cents on the dollar, R Place and Pioneer can’t get any decent price and the most beautiful food and liquor establishment in the history of Forest Park remains shuttered.  Do something scientific.  Go to every Forest Park establishment at the same time, 3 or 4 times a day for one week. Then come back and report. 

                I have tried to talk to as many restaurant and bar owners as I could.  The overall business climate is disturbingly down.  I know Watcher wrote that places with bar/food bar/entertainment seem to be doing okay.  I wish that was true because at least there would be a path.  But it looks like Music on Madison, Chalk and Molly’s, bars with food and entertainment are really struggling.  I know that an advisory referendum during a school board election failed.  But I also know demand for Forest Park food and drink has decreased.  Maybe it’s time to at least reexamine the issue.  I would be willing to talk privately with any interested person.

Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 11:16am
I voted FOR gaming in Forest Park and was sad when the advisory failed to pass. Personally (as I've stated before) I believe that many of the folks that voted against the advisory don't go to bars or gamble.

And things have changed....in the past Forest Park was one of the villages where people COULD go to drink (as their village was DRY...Riverside and Oak Park come to mind [heck that's how I ended up in FP after growing up in Riverside]) and now they can drink in their own suburb. So why leave their town to come to ours; nothing to add to their experience.

I think FP has shot themselves in the foot by not allowing the gaming.
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by Iceman Iceman wrote:

I know Watcher wrote that places with bar/food bar/entertainment seem to be doing okay. I wish that was true because at least there would be a path. But it looks like Music on Madison, Chalk and Molly’s, bars with food and entertainment are really struggling. I know that an advisory referendum during a school board election failed. But I also know demand for Forest Park food and drink has decreased. Maybe it’s time to at least reexamine the issue.


I had intended to post publicly available pictures of other Mad St. bars, but had trouble finding others. There were some rockin' pictures from Doc Ryan's, but the ashtrays, lighters and cigarette packs on the bar made it apparent that the pictures were older.

There are tons of issues in need of re-examination. To begin with, a lack of gambling machines did not suddenly make it hard to be a bar owner in Forest Park or anywhere else. DUIs, happy hour bans and the smoking ban did that years ago. Non-smokers were supposed to fill that void and didn't. The bars never recovered.

The "free money" that gambling machines are claimed to provide is hardly free. It represents money lost, not money found. You can say that nobody forced the losers to put their money in the machines, but you can also say, no machines, no losses.

As to the "down market" for R'Place, Circle Inn and Fiorenza, welcome to the post-meltdown realities. I don't know how or by whom the properties are being marketed, the asking price or other aspects of trying to sell, but I don't see how the lack of eager buyers is reason enough to revisit the voters' 2-1 rejection of video gambling. Especially if the revisit removes the voters from the process. If you and the other liquor licensees want to rephrase the question in another referendum, that avenue is available to you. If you want to try to make the next village elections about whether or not to allow gambling, you can try that too. A scheme to get the council to set aside the referendum and make video gambling legal? Well, that just seems insulting to those who voted it down.



"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 1:11pm
Watcher, was it really a referendum or just an advisory to get a feel for how us villagers felt about gaming? And with such a low percentage of voters who actually even voted, is it a true result? Just asking.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03
Copyright ©2001-2011 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.
A.Lange & Sohne Langematik Tourbillon Replica Watches ,and it must be a dream replica watches. Brand, style, visibility, features are absolutely assiduous, they not only added to their own sort of power in the rolex replica sale, and certainly can bear, "handed down" in the name. Now here is a fantastic choice for you, if you heard of Langematik Tourbillon rolex replica sale , this article will be much helpful to you. The function of a breitling replica sale is no longer confined to more of a symbol used to reflect personal taste. For men, the rolex replica uk is a symbol of their status; the contrary, a woman wearing a replica watches in addition to at the time, the greatest use is decorative, fashion Langematik Tourbillon breitling replica sale , elegance, style, simplicity, there is a pressing vulgarity temperament.