Forest Park Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General Discussion > Soapbox
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Problems with video poker disclosed
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Problems with video poker disclosed

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
Observerofdoom View Drop Down
Tourist
Tourist


Joined: 11/October/2013
Location: NA
Status: Offline
Points: 13
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Observerofdoom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 2:00pm
Most appropriate course of action would be to legalize video poker payouts, because we all know that many places across the state that had video poker also had under the table payouts...Legalizing it, eliminates the practice and the tax dollars flow where they should..benefiting schools.

Bar owners win, schools win and the majority of gamblers lose anyway, because the house always wins...then they spend 11 bucks on some cigarettes, puff on those after they lose and again the tax dollars flow. Smoking gamblers! That's the answer! Dead
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

Watcher, was it really a referendum or just an advisory to get a feel for how us villagers felt about gaming? And with such a low percentage of voters who actually even voted, is it a true result? Just asking.


Yes, it was really a referendum and while not binding, the voters spoke. You can dislike the outcome, but you can't disqualify the results.

"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:


Yes, it was really a referendum and while not binding, the voters spoke. You can dislike the outcome, but you can't disqualify the results.


So 951 people who don't like gambling won. How sad is that? Only 15.9% of the voters even bothered to vote! How sad is that?
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:


Yes, it was really a referendum and while not binding, the voters spoke. You can dislike the outcome, but you can't disqualify the results.


So 951 people who don't like gambling won. How sad is that? Only 15.9% of the voters even bothered to vote! How sad is that?


So YES, 951 people who voted to keep Video Gambling illegal won.
Voter turnout? That's a completely different issue.

If you want voter turnout, give them something BINDING to weigh in on;
something that is important to them, like taxes or healthcare or campaign funding or are corporations people? Or a high school!



"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 5:46pm
Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:

So YES, 951 people who voted to keep Video Gambling illegal won.Voter turnout? That's a completely different issue.
No one won, it wasn't a binding referendum, some voices were heard. Even if I agree to everything stated in your previous post, smoking, happy hr, etc, still believe video gambling would give our ailing businesses a boost.
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:

So YES, 951 people who voted to keep Video Gambling illegal won.Voter turnout? That's a completely different issue.
No one won, it wasn't a binding referendum, some voices were heard. Even if I agree to everything stated in your previous post, smoking, happy hr, etc, still believe video gambling would give our ailing businesses a boost.


So would drugs and prostitution. Pick your poison.

FTR, I'm not a big fan of the Lottery either.
Poor peoples' tax.



Edited by watcher - 22/October/2013 at 6:26pm
"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 6:32pm
I'll take the legal poison, TY.
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

I'll take the legal poison, TY.


Why don't we go all-in and go for a riverboat?
Just think how great that'd be!




"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 3:38am
The DesPlaines is too narrow, 'round these parts. How 'bout a casino on the old Roos property?:) TRUMP!

Edited by logic - 23/October/2013 at 3:40am
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 8:01am
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

The DesPlaines is too narrow, 'round these parts. How 'bout a casino on the old Roos property?:) TRUMP!


That didn't stop DesPlaines from building "The Rivers". Rosemont showed them the way. River access is the key. We have that. There's even a chunk of property on which to build it.

Going afield here. Let's get back to alcohol and gambling in the bars. When gambling machines are ubiquitous and the novelty has worn off, what will be the next draw? Is this a scheme or a plan? I'll admit that sticking five machines in each of our troubled bars is an easy fix, but it's hardly a solution to questionable business decisions

What would Jon Taffer do?



"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 8:36am
Had to look that one up, watcher, haven't seen "Bar Rescue", watch Ramsay, a few Tabathas, my guilty pleasure is "The Real Housewives of NJ":)

History tells us the guilty pleasure of gambling never wears off. The next BIG draw could be you and I doing karaoke.
Back to Top
Bill Dwyer View Drop Down
Pillar
Pillar
Avatar

Joined: 31/August/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 9:01am
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

 The next BIG draw could be you and I doing karaoke.

OMG... the image of watcher doing karaoke is too dark and disturbing to contemplate. :)

This question may need its own post, but I was wondering how many other people have heard that Emanuel "Chris!!!" Welch has announced efforts to lay the groundwork for a full-blown casino at First Avenue and the Ike? 


Facts are a bitch and the truth most hurts the liars
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 9:19am
Not in anyone's loop, Dear, when did this announcement take place? It's too close to PMSA/PE, not good, but watcher has a piece of land in mind.
Back to Top
Bill Dwyer View Drop Down
Pillar
Pillar
Avatar

Joined: 31/August/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 9:23am
I'm told he brought it up at a meeting of area political types in last two months. Reportedly there's legislation that's been tabled until the next session. Was told he said it by a person present at the meeting.

Anyone else heard this? 
Facts are a bitch and the truth most hurts the liars
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 9:55am
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

Had to look that one up, watcher, haven't seen "Bar Rescue", watch Ramsay, a few Tabathas, my guilty pleasure is "The Real Housewives of NJ":)

History tells us the guilty pleasure of gambling never wears off. The next BIG draw could be you and I doing karaoke.


I was thinking more of a dunk tank... but seriously, back during the "homes for parking" LNC debacles, we were told that our taverns needed more parking. Video gambling was not even a blip on the radar. Several councils prior to this, there was heated debate over Foosball tables and pinball machines...live entertainment, "fashion shows", beer gardens, sidewalk seating, rooftop beer gardens, Reggae nights, St. Patrick's day parades "tailgate parties" "tent parties" closing streets, Cruise nights, extended hours...

All in all, our liquor businesses have a healthy history of "needs". Some have been accommodated, others have not and each was framed as the difference between survival and loss of establishments. Each represented a fad or trend. Why is this time any different?

"I never made a dime in this business". "If we can't have valet parking; we're through!"

Crying wolf is positively pathological.



"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 9:59am
Originally posted by Bill Dwyer Bill Dwyer wrote:

I was wondering how many other people have heard that Emanuel "Chris!!!" Welch has announced efforts to lay the groundwork for a full-blown casino at First Avenue and the Ike?


Sounds like something he'd say. Just think of the opportunities!
Such a visionary!
"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
Iceman View Drop Down
Nomad
Nomad
Avatar

Joined: 17/October/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iceman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 10:27am

Watcher, a couple of comments.  First, I agree, if the real sentiment is 2 to 1 against gaming it’s never going to be allowed, nor should it.   However for the following reasons I believe the real ratio is much closer to at least even.

                First, the advisory referendum was tied to a school board election. The people who vote in such an election are a skewed subset of the total population of the Village.  Second, people’s opinions are beginning to change.  Contrary to the horror stories we were fed, the truth is gaming has turned out to be a pleasant activity for hundreds of thousands of people throughout the state.  Third, it is becoming apparent that the restaurant and bar community are really being negatively impacted.  As a function of time their voices will grow.

                Watcher, I disagree with the following; First you write “To begin with a lack of gambling machines did not suddenly make it hard to be a bar owner in Forest Park or anywhere else.”  This is not true, we are losing customers who want to experience legal gaming in a bar or restaurant.  We are losing to bars and restaurants that are using their machine driven record profits to cut prices in a way we can’t match.  Understand, the owners of R Place, Pioneer and Circle Inn want to sell specifically because Forest park doesn’t allow gaming.  There is no as you say “down market” in North Riverside, Brookfield and Berwyn; just record profits and Forest Park customers.

                Finally Watcher mentions “The "free money" that gambling machines are claimed to provide is hardly free. It represents money lost, not money found. You can say that nobody forced the losers to put their money in the machines, but you can also say, no machines, no losses.”  Recently my wife and I spent $100 on dinner, $50 in a bar and won or lost $50 on gaming, all three were consumer choices we chose to make.  Now if the restaurant wasn’t there we could have bought a McDonald’s hamburger . If the bar was not there we could have bought a six pack and if the gaming wasn’t there we could have went home and played Yatzee.  I’m glad none of that happened.  I’m an adult.  I love the freedom I have and accept the responsibility that comes with it!  Watcher, a question; It is my understanding that Forest park receives some money from Rivers Casino.  If you were an elected official would you return that money and work to close the casino?  Or is your “LOVE” reserved for the restaurants and bars in Forest park?

                Finally, to all commenters; it appears that more than half the places with gaming serve food.  All most all of the Forest Park eateries I’ve spoken to favor the games.  Do your own research.  Talk to the restaurant and bar owners.  Ask them if what I say is true.

Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:


Sounds like something he'd say. Just think of the opportunities!
Such a visionary!
It sounds like a gift to his supporters, the ones with political clout and money.
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:


Sounds like something he'd say. Just think of the opportunities!
Such a visionary!
It sounds like a gift to his supporters, the ones with political clout and money.
Perhaps someone will get a finders' fee for the site as well
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by Iceman Iceman wrote:

Watcher, a couple of comments. First, I agree, if the real sentiment is 2 to 1 against gaming it’s never going to be allowed, nor should it.   However for the following reasons I believe the real ratio is much closer to at least even.

               First, the advisory referendum was tied to a school board election. The people who vote in such an election are a skewed subset of the total population of the Village. Second, people’s opinions are beginning to change. Contrary to the horror stories we were fed, the truth is gaming has turned out to be a pleasant activity for hundreds of thousands of people throughout the state. Third, it is becoming apparent that the restaurant and bar community are really being negatively impacted. As a function of time their voices will grow.

               Watcher, I disagree with the following; First you write “To begin with a lack of gambling machines did not suddenly make it hard to be a bar owner in Forest Park or anywhere else.” This is not true, we are losing customers who want to experience legal gaming in a bar or restaurant. We are losing to bars and restaurants that are using their machine driven record profits to cut prices in a way we can’t match. Understand, the owners of R Place, Pioneer and Circle Inn want to sell specifically because Forest park doesn’t allow gaming. There is no as you say “down market” in North Riverside, Brookfield and Berwyn; just record profits and Forest Park customers.

               Finally Watcher mentions “The "free money" that gambling machines are claimed to provide is hardly free. It represents money lost, not money found. You can say that nobody forced the losers to put their money in the machines, but you can also say, no machines, no losses.” Recently my wife and I spent $100 on dinner, $50 in a bar and won or lost $50 on gaming, all three were consumer choices we chose to make. Now if the restaurant wasn’t there we could have bought a McDonald’s hamburger . If the bar was not there we could have bought a six pack and if the gaming wasn’t there we could have went home and played Yatzee. I’m glad none of that happened. I’m an adult. I love the freedom I have and accept the responsibility that comes with it! Watcher, a question; It is my understanding that Forest park receives some money from Rivers Casino. If you were an elected official would you return that money and work to close the casino? Or is your “LOVE” reserved for the restaurants and bars in Forest park?

               Finally, to all commenters; it appears that more than half the places with gaming serve food. All most all of the Forest Park eateries I’ve spoken to favor the games. Do your own research. Talk to the restaurant and bar owners. Ask them if what I say is true.



If you have a better way to determine the "real sentiments" of every resident of Forest Park, I fully back your efforts to find out, but SFAIK, putting questions to a vote is the best currently available method.

It's quite disingenuous to dismiss or discount a valid outcome because
you fell short. You didn't succeed. Try again. That's how it works.
Figure out how to sell your plan to 50% + 1 voter. After all, "Peoples' opinions may be changing", but I do understand that it's much easier to convert 3 votes on a 5 member council than to actually convert a thousand voters to your side. We seem to agree that voter turnout is a fickle master, but at the present time, that's how we roll. I have to deal with it. So do you.

You disagree with my pre-Video Gambling state of the FoPa bar business? How? Everything was peachy in the bar business before the effort to legalize video gambling failed? How much had business fallen off due to the smoking ban? Had business recovered to its pre-ban levels? Where would I get such a silly idea that things hadn't gotten better? Maybe from the bar owners' statements that business was way down? Were those untrue?

You attribute more recent dips in patronage to customers going to towns that allow video gambling, but offer only your perspective on assigning this cause. It may be a significant contributing element, but doesn't account for 100% of the drop. Some percentage may have stopped coming because their buddies were no longer there, some may have left town because they have high school age kids, some might have found a place with better lighting, more convenient parking, better wings... Neither of us can explain where all the people went. Without identifying, tracking down and asking each ex-patron, isn't it all just guess work.
What validates your guesses more than mine?

You say "Almost all the FP eateries...favor the games"? What is almost all? How many did you poll? A few weren't in favor? How many? Did you go eatery by eatery to conduct your survey? Was it a phone survey? I assume you know all the owners? A professional relationship?

All I have to go on is a decent knowledge of gamblings' history and its place in our own storied past. I'm a cynic. When someone says it's a win-win thing, my spidey senses tingle furiously. In general, I don't favor a nanny state, but as long as we're picking and choosing for everyone, video gambling is one I question as having serious downsides.

Why did South Carolina, overwhelmingly ban Video Gambling? Yes, it was a horror story, about a mother who left her child in the car while she was inside gambling and the child died, that tipped public opinion to banning. And while that may be just a single occurence, enough people in South Carolina identified with the problem's cause and effect to say it wasn't worth it. They gave up all that potential revenue for their own selfish reasons.

So finally, nobody asked me about riverboats or lotteries, or if they did, I lost to bigger numbers. I was asked about video gambling, did my own research, thought about it and cast my vote. I'm not sure what you've said to change other people's vote, I hope it took more than "bar owners will make more money".
"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
jerry View Drop Down
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 324
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 4:41pm
Iceman, you hit the nail right on the head, of coarse the owners want it, I am sure it would increase their revenues. The fact that most of them don't live in town doesn't seem bother you, it does me. How was the referendum tied to the school board election,I missed that one. The business owners tried hard to get people to voted for video gambling, it didn't work. The restaurants I have seen close in this town had more to do with poor management, food and sevre than lack of VG. By the way, wasn't Circle Inn sold several years ago to a company that was going to build senior housing?
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 7:18pm
Circle inn, shortstop and blueberry hill are all the same owner. Plus, he owns a bar in fox lake and I think Elmhurst as well. Or lives in Elmhurst.
Back to Top
jerry View Drop Down
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 324
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/October/2013 at 10:01pm
He lives in Elmhirst
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/October/2013 at 6:26am
Originally posted by jerry jerry wrote:

By the way, wasn't Circle Inn sold several years ago to a company that was going to build senior housing?


It was The Pines/OakLeaf Lounge across from the park that was proposed as senior housing.


"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/October/2013 at 6:47am
Way off topic but there is going to be a huge need for senior/assisted living facilities. Believe Rosemont has a low-cost, partially subsidized senior living facility but think you may need to know somebody who knows SOMEBODY to get in. Hearsay?

Edited by logic - 24/October/2013 at 6:56am
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/October/2013 at 9:34am
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

Way off topic but there is going to be a huge need for senior/assisted living facilities. Believe Rosemont has a low-cost, partially subsidized senior living facility but think you may need to know somebody who knows SOMEBODY to get in. Hearsay?
Who wants to live in Rosemont though? Certainly not me!
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/October/2013 at 9:26am
Originally posted by jerry jerry wrote:

... of coarse the owners want it, I am sure it would increase their revenues. The fact that most of them don't live in town doesn't seem bother you, it does me.
Will be the first to admit my ignorance of tax structure, taxing bodies, %, etc but assume if it increases their revenue it increases ours. Am I wrong? Would having more people traffic on the street help other businesses? Don't know. jerry, do understand where your coming from. Whether a business owner lives in FP or not has never been a huge concern, for me. They're still subject to the same rules/regs/taxes.
Back to Top
Iceman View Drop Down
Nomad
Nomad
Avatar

Joined: 17/October/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iceman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/October/2013 at 7:19pm
The Circle Inn was not sold for senior housing, however most people say it already is a house for seniors. Both of it's owners and most of the staff are seniors. I have been told that the two owners lived in Forest Park for a combined total exceeding 50 years, but I believe both live elsewhere now. Most of its customers live within walking distance. 
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/October/2013 at 10:37pm
Circle inn owners own blueberry hill and shortstop on FP. Also, a bar in Fox Lake.
Back to Top
Iceman View Drop Down
Nomad
Nomad
Avatar

Joined: 17/October/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iceman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/October/2013 at 11:00pm
Watcher, I have a question.  It is my understanding that Forest Park gets money from gaming, from the Rivers Casino.  If you were Czar of Forest Park would you refuse the money?  Now if the answer is yes, have you urged our council to do so?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03
Copyright ©2001-2011 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.
A.Lange & Sohne Langematik Tourbillon Replica Watches ,and it must be a dream replica watches. Brand, style, visibility, features are absolutely assiduous, they not only added to their own sort of power in the rolex replica sale, and certainly can bear, "handed down" in the name. Now here is a fantastic choice for you, if you heard of Langematik Tourbillon rolex replica sale , this article will be much helpful to you. The function of a breitling replica sale is no longer confined to more of a symbol used to reflect personal taste. For men, the rolex replica uk is a symbol of their status; the contrary, a woman wearing a replica watches in addition to at the time, the greatest use is decorative, fashion Langematik Tourbillon breitling replica sale , elegance, style, simplicity, there is a pressing vulgarity temperament.