Forest Park Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General Discussion > Soapbox
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Problems with video poker disclosed
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Problems with video poker disclosed

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
Message
Bill Dwyer View Drop Down
Pillar
Pillar
Avatar

Joined: 31/August/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Problems with video poker disclosed
    Posted: 06/October/2013 at 12:27pm

From Sunday's Chicago Tribune


Video poker protections questioned

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-video-poker-regulation-20131006,0,627890.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+chicagotribune%2Fviews+(chicagotribune.com+-+Most+Viewed+Stories)
Facts are a bitch and the truth most hurts the liars
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/October/2013 at 2:12pm
My mom called me bright and early today (8:00am on a Sunday) to tell me about this article. Acquaintances with the Waterworks owner so she wanted to know if I knew anything, which I do not.
Back to Top
Bill Dwyer View Drop Down
Pillar
Pillar
Avatar

Joined: 31/August/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/October/2013 at 2:29pm
The Trib article focuses on Vince Dublino, who testified in the Michael "Big Guy" Sarno federal criminal trial that he "placed illegal video poker machines in bars around the western suburbs and collected money from them for year."

Sarno ened up with a 25-year prison sentence. Dublino ended up with lucrative contracts to provide and service video gambling- oops, "gaming"- machines. 

But it's OK. Dublino's lawyer says he's really a "good guy."

"He is a clean kid. He really, really is," the Trib quotes mouthpiece David Rallo.

I guess with some people, if you use the adverb "really" twice, people are supposed to just really, really believe you. 

Luckily, Forest Park residents had better sense. The Tribune article notes that Waterworks bar in Lyons is "on track" to pull in $250,000 this year. 

The bar gets a third- $83,000-plus- the machine operator, which is Dublino, get s another third, and the state and local governments get the rest. Lyons share will be a whooping five percent- $12,250. 


Edited by Bill Dwyer - 06/October/2013 at 3:45pm
Facts are a bitch and the truth most hurts the liars
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/October/2013 at 9:02pm
Yes, and Forest Park bar owners are not able to compete any more. Myself and many other Forest Parkers spend most of our entertainment $$ outside of Forest Park so we can be adults and gamble if we so desire as it is legal.

Ask some of the bar owners how much less $$ they are making since gaming was legalized in Illinois. I bet some are hanging on by a thread.
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/October/2013 at 9:17am
Pie, couldn't tell you the last time I was in a bar, my gambling is limited to an occasional scratch-off. Have experienced, first hand, the affect of gambling addiction on a family but agree with you 100%. People are going to gamble, let them do it here, we can use the dough.

Yes, Bill, there have been illegal gaming machines in the backrooms of bars for many yrs. That was then, this is now, it's legal.

Edited by logic - 07/October/2013 at 9:27am
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/October/2013 at 9:37am
Originally posted by Bill Dwyer Bill Dwyer wrote:


The bar gets a third- $83,000-plus- the machine operator, which is Dublino, get s another third, and the state and local governments get the rest. Lyons share will be a whooping five percent- $12,250. 
Is this division of the spoils written in stone (the law) or is there room to negotiate a bigger percentage for the local village/town?
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/October/2013 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

People are going to gamble, let them do it here, we can use the dough.

Yes, Bill, there have been illegal gaming machines in the backrooms of bars for many yrs. That was then, this is now, it's legal.


What's the plan for all that dough? Seems a pretty short-sighted rationale for such a big change in dynamics. What/where are the numbers that show FoPa bars have suffered from the lack of gaming?

When the pitch was made, we were told that the industry would be squeaky clean. Almost immediately, questions came up about who was applying for credentials, licenses and the thoroughness of the vetting process. Not even a year into the new law, it's pretty clear that the regulators aren't up to the task to a level that assures the public's interests.





"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
jerry View Drop Down
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 324
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/October/2013 at 12:39pm
logic, it is pretty written in stone, there is wiggle between the vendor and the business but that's about it.
Back to Top
Bill Dwyer View Drop Down
Pillar
Pillar
Avatar

Joined: 31/August/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/October/2013 at 12:39pm
The division of gambling revenues is dictated by state law, logic. 

As for your ridiculous "That was then, this is now, it's legal" comment, well, duh. Do tell. 

The point is that some of the same people who routinely broke the law then are involved in the system now


Facts are a bitch and the truth most hurts the liars
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/October/2013 at 2:06pm
Why short-sighted? Do you need to have a plan in place for possible, variable, future revenue? If/when, given the go, yes, I would expect a plan.

Please, watcher/Bill, point me in the direction of a squeaky-clean gaming industry. Maybe state lotteries? What do they do with the unclaimed payout money? Bingo doesn't count.

Bill, if your going to accuse people of being ridiculous for stating an opinion, go blog on the Review. They're lying in wait for you:)
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/October/2013 at 2:11pm
Squeaky-clean and anything the government touches is NEVER gonna happen!
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/October/2013 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

Why short-sighted? Do you need to have a plan in place for possible, variable, future revenue? If/when, given the go, yes, I would expect a plan.


Short-sighted because the downsides of gambling aren't included in the "costs". Atlantic City and Vegas, beyond the facade of the strip are a declining scale of "excellence" and troubles. That's not the face of gambling in the advertising. That's just the reality. The state is touting over $4 million in revenue so far from video gambling. My math might be off by a little, but that represents ~$18 million dollars lost into the machines. That's $18 million not spent on goods or services in the local economy.

The biggest money-makers state-wide aren't bars or truckstops, they're
tiny little places in strip malls; big enough to hold 5 machines. They're not looking to provide much beyond the machines. Soda, beer & wine are available, but aren't the primary business as stated on the license application. Towns that allow gaming, but have tried to restrict the type of establishments that qualify are being sued and losing.

Do I think our brain-trusts are up to the challenge video gambling presents? No more than I think they need more money to spend.

"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
Bill Dwyer View Drop Down
Pillar
Pillar
Avatar

Joined: 31/August/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/October/2013 at 3:47pm
Oh, that was an opinion, logic? It appeared to me like a silly little pointless observation.

And I don't call someone ridiculous for merely stating an opinion, just when they state a ridiculous opinion. Or whatever it was you were trying to do there.

Someone points out that there are problems with legalized gambling, and people like you respond with  "then and now" blather and a shrug of the shoulders, with the implication that there can't be anything "squeaky clean" involving the government. Just who's the cynic here? 
Facts are a bitch and the truth most hurts the liars
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/October/2013 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by Bill Dwyer Bill Dwyer wrote:

Just who's the cynic here? 


You rang?
"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/October/2013 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:


Do I think our brain-trusts are up to the challenge video gambling presents? No more than I think they need more money to spend.

Need specifics, watcher, what are the challenges you foresee?

PS: Already know I'll be sorry I asked:)

Edited by logic - 07/October/2013 at 6:07pm
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/October/2013 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by Bill Dwyer Bill Dwyer wrote:

.....with the implication that there can't be anything "squeaky clean" involving the government. Just who's the cynic here?
Exactly.
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/October/2013 at 8:13am
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:


Do I think our brain-trusts are up to the challenge video gambling presents? No more than I think they need more money to spend.

Need specifics, watcher, what are the challenges you foresee?

PS: Already know I'll be sorry I asked:)


Attend to the challenge confronting the Wheeling Board (the freshest instance).
Wheeling Gambling

The similarities between video gambling and our present taxing structure should not be lost on you. You put your money in and take your chances?

Revenues coming up short? A few parlors will provide? Bedford Falls or Pottersville?

It's likely the Dad in me that balks at adding insult to injury. When current monies are woefully accounted for, how does new revenue improve our lot?



"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/October/2013 at 10:16am
You can allow gaming in existing bars and not allow the set-up of mini gambling dens in a community.

w="Revenues coming up short? A few parlors will provide? Bedford Falls or Pottersville?"

Isn't that exactly what the state lottery is, number of games growing yr after yr, even if it isn't how it was initially sold to the public?

Think it was on NPR, the lower your income the greater the % spent on lotteries and other forms of gambling.

Edited by logic - 08/October/2013 at 10:16am
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/October/2013 at 11:01am
'gambling cafe'? Is that up to 5 machines in a bar or some other concept?

Looking at the August 2013 gaming board monthly report, Wheeling currently has 2 sites; one with 5 machines and other with 4 machines.
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/October/2013 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

'gambling cafe'? Is that up to 5 machines in a bar or some other concept?
Yes, put in a few bistro tables and throw some sandwiches at the customers. Voila! Strictly legit.
Back to Top
Bill Dwyer View Drop Down
Pillar
Pillar
Avatar

Joined: 31/August/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/October/2013 at 12:45pm
[/QUOTE] Yes, put in a few bistro tables and throw some sandwiches at the customers.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. Now I've got the image of people sitting on stools in front of video gambling machines, with pieces of lettuce and deli meat hanging from their heads and mayonnaise splattered all over them. :)
Facts are a bitch and the truth most hurts the liars
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/October/2013 at 12:50pm
Haven't seen any video gaming machines up close, are any made in Melrose Park, just askin'?
Back to Top
watcher View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Active here since 2001

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 6284
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/October/2013 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

'gambling cafe'? Is that up to 5 machines in a bar or some other concept?

Looking at the August 2013 gaming board monthly report, Wheeling currently has 2 sites; one with 5 machines and other with 4 machines.


The "bar" is an afterthought. There's one in Love's Park that reminds me of "Hole-in-the-wall" ice cream on Oak Park Av. Only the front 5' of the stripmall store is used. A wall w/ 5 machines with stools, a loveseat sized couch for waiting and a half-door that serves as "the bar" w/ a cooler to hold beverages. They were waiting on the OK for another 5 machines.

The truck stop off of I-39 and I-88 has one area for truckers and a separate area for general public. There were several obvious teens playing a few of the machines.

Professional gambler is now a career path?
"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/October/2013 at 1:24pm
I couldn't see myself going to a place that was just set up for 5 machines. BORING!

BUT, if I'm at a bar/restaurant that offers 5 machines as a diversion for when the mood strikes, I'm in!
Back to Top
Bill Dwyer View Drop Down
Pillar
Pillar
Avatar

Joined: 31/August/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/October/2013 at 1:40pm
Only manufacturer of any importance I could find in Illinois is WMS, Inc. of Waukegan.

As of June 30, they employed 1,894 persons, "including 309 that are internationally based." Annual revenues $697 million.

Average sales price per new unit- $15,553.

FWIW, from their FY '13 SEC filing:
We shipped 647 VGT units to the new market that opened in Illinois starting in the September 2013 quarter. During the March and June 2013 quarters, we believe we lost revenue in this market due to customer concerns about our inability to serve the market long-term given existing Illinois law prohibited the supplier of the state monitoring system (currently Scientific Games) from also selling VGTs, which will be the case upon the closing of the acquisition. Once the governor signed a new law modifying this provision on June 24, 2013, we restarted shipments into the Illinois market. 

Also from SEC filing regarding a major part of their revenue, from "participation games.":

Participation games, which are gaming machines owned by us that we lease based upon any of the following payment methods: (1) a percentage of the casino’s net win; (2) fixed daily fees; or (3) a percentage of the coin-in or a combination of a fixed daily fee plus a percentage of the coin-in. We have the ability to lease these gaming machines on a participation basis because of the superior performance of the game and/or the popularity of the brand, which generates higher wagering and net win to the casinos or gaming machine operators than the gaming machines we sell outright.
Facts are a bitch and the truth most hurts the liars
Back to Top
Bill Dwyer View Drop Down
Pillar
Pillar
Avatar

Joined: 31/August/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/October/2013 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

 BUT, if I'm at a bar/restaurant that offers 5 machines as a diversion for when the mood strikes, I'm in!

Just watch out for those flying sammiches. :)
Facts are a bitch and the truth most hurts the liars
Back to Top
logic View Drop Down
Local Authority
Local Authority


Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/October/2013 at 1:53pm
Uh-hmmm, Where I come from it's sangwich:)
Back to Top
piehead View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 11750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/October/2013 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

Uh-hmmm, Where I come from it's sangwich:)
Then you ARE Forest Park!
Back to Top
Jonesy View Drop Down
Nomad
Nomad


Joined: 08/October/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 74
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 12:26pm
I have heard the following rumor twice in the last week with slight variations from fairly reliable persons.

Supposedly Comms. Manix and Harris are working on a video gambling ordinance disregarding the 2 to 1 vote by the residents against it.  Their logic?  The 1400 total votes cast was not enough to make if fair.

The second version includes Comm. Hosty.
Back to Top
Bill Dwyer View Drop Down
Pillar
Pillar
Avatar

Joined: 31/August/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 12:54pm
Heard the same, Jonesy, but can't confirm. 

I'd note that how ever many people actually voted, the referendum was advisory, not binding. 

That said, if the rumor turns out to be true- a BIG IF, I'd ask this:

Should we disregard the results of elections with very low turnouts? What's the standard, the minimum number of votes. And where is that written in state law? 

A 2-to-1 ratio is a 2-to-1 ratio, whether 8,000 to 4,000 or just 2-to-1. The voters were asked, and those who cared to cast a ballot spoke clearly. 
Facts are a bitch and the truth most hurts the liars
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03
Copyright ©2001-2011 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.
A.Lange & Sohne Langematik Tourbillon Replica Watches ,and it must be a dream replica watches. Brand, style, visibility, features are absolutely assiduous, they not only added to their own sort of power in the rolex replica sale, and certainly can bear, "handed down" in the name. Now here is a fantastic choice for you, if you heard of Langematik Tourbillon rolex replica sale , this article will be much helpful to you. The function of a breitling replica sale is no longer confined to more of a symbol used to reflect personal taste. For men, the rolex replica uk is a symbol of their status; the contrary, a woman wearing a replica watches in addition to at the time, the greatest use is decorative, fashion Langematik Tourbillon breitling replica sale , elegance, style, simplicity, there is a pressing vulgarity temperament.