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Bill Dwyer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11/October/2013 at 10:13am

Came home from a pleasant dinner Thursday evening to find more troll droppings on my computer screen.

http://www.forestparkreview.com/News/Articles/9-26-2013/New-park-playground-to-open-Oct.-5/#Comment-d59e282a101fcc639aec4cff17aa52db

It was a Trudserver, and it was puzzled.

“It's funny, if you disagree or point out duplicity they call you a troll?” the troll bleated plaintively.

No, troll. They call you a troll when, no matter what the issue being discussed may be, the only response you can manage is name calling and personal attacks that have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

As for “duplicity,” you mean, as in “deceitfulness; double-dealing”?

The troll offered no details of any duplicitousness, just general, unsubstantiated accusations. Because details take real mental energy and attention to, well… detail. 

Of necessity trolls have to weave what they can out of whatever they can find, because they can’t comprehend or confront or refute an opinion intelligently or specifically. Or with any semblance of spelling or punctuation.

There are some positive developments, however. Several grown ups on the FPR website, people who actually value conversations about things and issues that are important to them and their families, clearly had had enough with the troll approach to discourse on the Review web site.

“It is a shame that two people seem to derail most every single comment thread with childish gibberish,” one FPR poster wrote.

“These comment sections quickly devolve into cyber bullying that has NOTHING to do with the articles,” another wrote.

“If the issue is that some people don't like the FPF, THEN DON"T READ THEM, or start your own damn forum, but stop b******g about them in unrelated comment sections! Can the Review please start blocking these harassing postings?”

A third poster challenged the troll to have the guts to come over here to the Forums and debate.

“As a resident and park enthusiast … I'm getting pretty sick of the comments section being dominated by the lock-step blathering of Observer and Trudy on any and all articles. You really SHOULD go to FPF and have it out over there instead of using the Review as a forum to drone on with your agenda.”

But trolls are too impressed with their own supposed cleverness and unique insights into things to do anything but drone on and on. Besides, they have mentors.

“Whatever? I learned from a very smart person, I think it was Bob Cox, not sure…” the troll wrote.

So, this “smart person” made an indelible impression on the troll’s meager brain, but not enough that the troll can recall his/her/its name with any certainty.

When I'm in a web board discussion, I listen to the other person’s argument, and, if they have a point, I acknowledge it. If they’re factually wrong, I confront it. And if they’re just plain talking out of their ass, I mock them.

Not the troll. It has its own special, grand (grandiose?) scheme for winning arguments.

“(A)nyway, when debating if you think you can win, you engage & go for the win(.) (E)qually matched? (S)tep back (,) think it over, sit a few plays out...if you are sure you will lose, you run and hide.”

That's called setting up a premise. It's a false premise, but it allows the troll to make the following contention.

“We can see what Billy D did ;) took his ball and went home.”

Funny thing is, I’m still here. Not “hiding anywhere. But the troll? It's still anonymous, talking in poorly spelled and punctuated, meaningless news article posts that add nothing to the conversation.

I can respond to the FPR web boards all day if I care to. But trolls are too intimidated and fearful to step outside of their little anonymous sand box. 

Because in fact trolls have nothing to add.

The troll bleated in conclusion, “I prefer "Fox News The Five" to the "Fantastic Four(.)"

No surprise there. If anything is certain about trolls, it’s that they function barely at the Fox News intellectual level. IOW, don’t bother with making sure your opinions fit reality, just pretend reality fits your opinions.

I think public discourse is too important to allow it to be hijacked by mindless trolls. 

Thankfully, more and more people are starting to catch on. 



Edited by Bill Dwyer - 11/October/2013 at 10:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 10:18am
It is rather tiring to even look at the comments any more. Trudy and Observer just keep dropping bird poop (and no facts).

Boring!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 10:57am
I watch Fox, CSPAN and sometimes listen to Limbaugh (tnink he's a funny, smart man), does that make me a troll? Maybe I'm "observer". Could get scary.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 11:14am
Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

I watch Fox, CSPAN and sometimes listen to Limbaugh (tnink he's a funny, smart man), does that make me a troll? Maybe I'm "observer". Could get scary.....


Stating the obvious: Obtrudist is convinced that Bill D. is writing all those comments. Never got it; never will. Who Ob and Trud are is far less important than whose water they're carrying. They're speaking for their clique and I heartily encourage them to display their wares for all to see.

Logic, If you are "observer"... well played. If you are Trudy, again well played. You've completely obscured any hint of your posting style of FPF. But, if this is so, I have only one question... What's your point? You've never been one to avoid the topic or bend every topic to personalities.

Their point, AFAICS, is to render the FPR comments section unreadable. We've seen their antics before. The song remains the same.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 11:19am
No, logic. As I stated above, what makes someone a troll is their responding online to a news article or opinion in a manner that has nothing to do with the content of the news article or opinion. 

And intelligent people can watch Fox News. I just can't imagine why they would bother. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 11:39am
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

It is rather tiring to even look at the comments any more. Trudy and Observer just keep dropping bird poop (and no facts).

Boring!
Didn't find "observer" boring, could be amusing, some of what he wrote was really funny, Sharon's butterfies, pie/logic tossing them back at the bar. He could be quite poetic in some of his postings, makes me think (Irishman?).

On the other hand, if my posts are dumb, Trudy's are dumber, sometimes made no sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 11:41am
Originally posted by Bill Dwyer Bill Dwyer wrote:


And intelligent people can watch Fox News. I just can't imagine why they would bother.


FAIR, BALANCED AND UNAFRAID:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Observerofdoom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 11:52am
Hey Billy, I'm here and I actually agreed with you on many topics! I'm not a troll and I can't let Logic take any credit for my artwork ;) I gave you credit when you deserved it and countered you when "I" thought you crossed the line..that's it.. period! I have no problem with you or your buddies here.  Thanks for welcoming me! I think I can make a good case for my arguments...Watcher is a more formidable opponent than you...sorry he/she is...Watcher posed some excellent questions on some topics that I simply couldn't answer, so he/she won.  

Sharon = Way 2 Sensitive!  Pie & Logic are good sports ;) 
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Received in a private message this morning:

Subject - Observer 
Sent - Today at 11:41am 
Sent by: Observerofdoom 
Group - Lurker Lurker

Hi Billy - I'm here and they won't let me in...I actually agreed with you on many issues, so lighten up! How about Andrea on Fox The Five ;) Tell your buddies to let me in! You will see I'm not a troll at all! Take care! 

So, it wants to post here now, "buddies." I'm fine with that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Dwyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 11:58am
Originally posted by Observerofdoom Observerofdoom wrote:

.... I think I can make a good case for my arguments...   

You can start actually making a case anytime. It'll be the first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by watcher watcher wrote:


Logic, If you are "observer"... well played. If you are Trudy, again well played. You've completely obscured any hint of your posting style of FPF. But, if this is so, I have only one question... What's your point? You've never been one to avoid the topic or bend every topic to personalities.
TY, watcher, I'm not that talented, no multiple personalities of which I'm aware,(OH OH, that's the point isn't it?). Was a joke. Maybe I am Trudy:))) If Trudy, would be reading "The Road Less Traveled", needs it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/October/2013 at 2:26pm
Careful, Observer, you may get what you ask for, Bill reminds me a little of Sean Hannity, they use the same bludgeon:) Better wear your helmet.

Don't feel too bad about the comparison, Bill, when I see Anthony Weiner on TV he reminds me of the old film clips of Mussolini giving a speech, same gestures, crossed arms, turn of head, pouty lips:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/October/2013 at 9:01am
Originally posted by Observerofdoom Observerofdoom wrote:

Hey Billy, I'm here and I actually agreed with you on many topics! I'm not a troll and I can't let Logic take any credit for my artwork ;) I gave you credit when you deserved it and countered you when "I" thought you crossed the line..that's it.. period! I have no problem with you or your buddies here.  Thanks for welcoming me! I think I can make a good case for my arguments...Watcher is a more formidable opponent than you...sorry he/she is...Watcher posed some excellent questions on some topics that I simply couldn't answer, so he/she won.


Observer, Some questions in need of clarification. When you first commented on the LTE about the high school, you said you are a FORMER Forest Parker who moved due to the high school issue? Your continued interactions in other comments seem to be saying you're still here in town. Which is it?

Your comments on the FPR quickly turned ad hominem (yeppers, that's what it's called when you ignore the topic and instead attack the messenger), turning every comment thread into non-productive discourse.
What that your goal/intention?

Unlike the FPR comments model, the FPF platform allows member-generated topics and threading that keeps discussions of interest visible past the FPR's weekly "expiration date". Older discussions can be "bumped" back up to visibility by adding a new comment.

Unlike the FPR comments, calling posters on being off-topic doesn't necessarily derail the topic under discussion. All it does is display one's lack of understanding of what debate and discourse are. If you'd like to hone your skills, this platform is a far better classroom.

Stand and deliver.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Observerofdoom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/October/2013 at 2:31pm
Watcher tell ya what, you can ask me anything personal that you want... after you start posting in your true name. You guys have been posting here for over a decade, you don't know their true names, never met in person??, yet I need to answer and clarify? Seriously that takes some balls! We know that you will never post in your true name..won't happen..anyway, what the hell happened over here, Sharon & Pie boycotting ;) Even Billy has lost his verve ;)

I will tell you this, I wasn't surprised with Billy's knee-jerk reaction to my entry, immediately posting my private message to the world..It occurred to me then, why I can't post here...Watcher, like me is an Omega Male and Billy is an Alpha Male to the extreme, we are in fact polar opposites and Billy's impulsive behavior would make posting here difficult!  Watcher & Billy both received private messages from me...did Watcher post it for public consumption..no

Therefore Billy has extinguished any possible hope for honest discourse...Pie & Sharon you can stop pouting in the corner with your arms folded...

Watcher, has the floor ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/October/2013 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by Observerofdoom Observerofdoom wrote:

Watcher, has the floor ;)


My unsolicited 2 cents:

Just b/c we may post anonymously does not mean we don't know each others' TRUE names. I'm not a liar, have never met watcher, Bill (although he did leave something in my home mailbox once), Sharon, pie or even the old Admin in person. Have known a few past posters personally.

Why has Bill extinguished any hope for honest discourse? You do not need to pm him nor do you need to respond to any his posts. That's one hell of a lame excuse. Stay or go, you're a big boy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/October/2013 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by Observerofdoom Observerofdoom wrote:

We know that you will never post in your true name..won't happen..anyway, what the hell happened over here, Sharon & Pie boycotting ;) Even Billy has lost his verve ;)

Watcher, has the floor ;)


For the first three years of the FPF's existence I posted under my real name. Who I am is no big secret. Why I took a pseudonym is no secret either. On FPF, I am watcher. I've lived in FoPa for thirty-four years.
If it's important to you to know who I am, send another PM and ask.

Yes, this edition of FPF has been up for 10 years, but there were earlier versions too. In all the years I've never understood the rabid fervor some have to figure out who is who. If your words have meaning, how does it matter?

So far, your words haven't meant much. Bitching anonymously about anonymity?

Come back when you have something relevant to say...

"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Observerofdoom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/October/2013 at 2:56pm
Just in case "Gina" is viewing.. a little description of the Omega vs Alpha:  Two sides of the same coin....both being very effective in accomplishing goals.
In Animals: Two Rams are butting heads while the female watches. The winner who mates is the stongest and therefore the Alpha Male. Wait...A third ram runs out of the woods and mates with the female while the two males are fighting. THAT is the omega male.

In Humans: Alpha Male: John Stewart
Omega Male: Steven Colbert

Alpha Male: Team Sport Captain
Omega Male: Dedicated student/master of martial arts. ;) Have a nice day! Wink

Billy Angry stop being so angry! Cry
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Watcher - OK I will post again when there is something interesting to debate/discuss. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Observerofdoom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/October/2013 at 3:04pm
Logic - Excellent point, I certainly don't want to follow Billy and his little tantrum leaving the FPR platform..pretty quiet here, kind of like that scene in Swingers when they arrive in Vegas expecting a wild night at the casino...when the door swings open it's a few elderly people playing the penny slots Wink
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Oh, I'm very relaxed, Obdoom. And you're still full of crap. You posted nearly the exact same thing publicly, now you want to use my cut and paste of your PM as an excuse to whine about why you can't post here? 

You're a phony who just can't make an honest argument. "All hat and no cattle," as they say in Texas, which just happens to be where I am this week.

In Austin, enjoying the laid back ambience and great food- have a 90 minute massage tomorrow before I change hotels for a three day conference. 

So when I say you're phony and full of crap, I speak only in the most mellow and relaxed manner. Because you're still a troll.

So my previous point remains- you can start actually making a clear, coherent case anytime, and when you do so, if you can manage it, it will be the first time you do so.


Edited by Bill Dwyer - 16/October/2013 at 3:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/October/2013 at 12:44am
Originally posted by Bill Dwyer Bill Dwyer wrote:


.....Because you're still a troll.
So my previous point remains, you can start actually making a clear, coherent case anytime, and when you do so, if you can manage it, it will be the first time you do so.
Stop, Bill, you extended the invitation, be gracious, if YOU can manage it. Some of us will never live up to your standards, so what? Don't care. Enjoy your 90 mins at the NoTell. Laid back? BS. Not even in your grave, it's purgatory for your restless spirit.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/October/2013 at 9:19am
Originally posted by Observerofdoom Observerofdoom wrote:

expecting a wild night at the casino...when the door swings open it's a few elderly people playing the penny slots
We've had plenty of wild nights, wildly ugly. Some people thrive on it, as for me, Bingo anyone?
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Originally posted by logic logic wrote:

Originally posted by Observerofdoom Observerofdoom wrote:

expecting a wild night at the casino...when the door swings open it's a few elderly people playing the penny slots
We've had plenty of wild nights, wildly ugly. Some people thrive on it, as for me, Bingo anyone?
Sure, I'll play BINGO; haven't played since the FP's 4th of July Senior games; always a good time using those ancient boards!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/October/2013 at 9:25am
Originally posted by piehead piehead wrote:

Sure, I'll play BINGO; haven't played since the FP's 4th of July Senior games; always a good time using those ancient boards!
I 22, pie, bring your whistle:)
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Get off it yourself, logic.

Anyone can live up to my "standards" since they involve simply "making a clear, coherent case" for or against an issue. The troll has yet to do that. 

And "NoTell?" Now who's being cheap and silly here? It was the Oak Haven Massage Center, owned and operated by a chiropractor. 

Now run off and play your little old lady game. I have a conference to attend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/October/2013 at 10:54am
Originally posted by Bill Dwyer Bill Dwyer wrote:


And "NoTell?" Now who's being cheap and silly here? It was the Oak Haven Massage Center, owned and operated by a chiropractor.
Now run off and play your little old lady game. I have a conference to attend.
Who said I couldn't occasionally be cheap and tawdry? But will tell you one thing, Bill, an over explanation is a good indicator of a fib. TY for taking the time out of your "conference" to reprimand me, Bill, didn't know I was that important to you.
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It's always important to counter the b.s., logic.

And I can see how some like you who complains about things too "voluminous" would view a two-sentence comment as "over-explanation."  


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Originally posted by Observerofdoom Observerofdoom wrote:

When the door swings open it's a few elderly people playing the penny slots Wink

I'm in for a few cents I love a Good game.. 

So People hide behind  Nicknames..  I Don't know Fully About that, 

Some like Nicknames.. My Nickname Goes WAY back More then  30 years for me..  Even my Nickname is a Nickname..  B. C. Bandit.. 

Nothing wrong with that,  even you pick a nick name?, Why?  Because it's fun or because your Hiding?? I like your Nickname So I think it's for fun, But hide if you like That's up to you.. 

So, You local or you in school Something about finding a High school?  I don't know where that came from Maybe Watcher Can Shed some light in my Mailbox with a link or some background info.. 

you joined 10/11/2013  and all your post are here on the 16th and nothing you said was you looking for a High school..     I might have been Tardy for a Few meetings or something, Yes, I'll go with it's Most likely Something.. or Anything.. I think it's just Strange.. 

You got a Problem With Bill D Just Agree to Disagree..   And Enjoy yourself here At Forest Park Forums.. BCB... 
I'm Chevy Chase and It's Time for the news.
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@ BC...Not hiding from anything, that's your word not mine.  I don't want my family or friends questioned about my positions or postings...period..

You find my joining strange? To be honest, I also think it's strange... and I really don't have anything to comment on.  When I do, I will hit the keyboard! Hopefully, someone will inspire some interesting dialogue over here.

I also don't have a problem with Bill D Wink 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/October/2013 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by Observerofdoom Observerofdoom wrote:

Hopefully, someone will inspire some interesting dialogue over here.


This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.

Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.

Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody’s job.

Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn’t do it.

It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
"It is a wreave belief that we already are in Hell."- Tuluk in Frank Herbert's "Whipping Star"
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